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Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Umpjong, we aren't going to change anyone's position on this. Those who want to squeeze every last out they can get, no matter in what manner it is accomplished, are going to continue to do so, no matter what common sense (not to mention fairness or decency) dictates.
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Agreed Steve
here is the OP
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Runner at 2nd, 1 out. Pop-up over 2nd base. Runner stays on base. Shortstop running to make the catch runs into the runner knocking him off the base. Shortstop catches the pop-up and tags the runner who is off the base. Double play or not?
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For those that will call the runner out on this play - GET READY because in all liklihood you will have to EJ the OM.
It will go something like this (after OM requests and is granted TIME)
Mgr: Blue why is my runner out.
Blue: he was tagged while off his base
Mgr: (thinking to himself -DUH) Blue my runner was pushed / shoved off the base.
Blue: No skip that's baseball
Mgr: You mean to tell me that it is ok for a fielder to push / shove runners off a base and then tag them for an out.
Blue: Skip that's the call time to play
The manager will most likely "go off" and say something like that's the worst f$$$$$$g call I ever saw. If that's the case then I will tell all my fielders to simply shove the runner of the base etc, etc. etc.
In other words - It's by by skip
Granted we cannot officiate because we do not want to get a manager mad. heck the mgr will get mad anyway. The point is this:
Did the fileder make a legitimate play on the runner and did the runner come off the base DUE to his OWN momentum not some "outside" factor.
In Summary: I agree with Steve in that umpires will call the way they want to see this play. I believe we all want outs. The question is this a LEGITIMATE out or looking for straws.
Now if it was 95 - 100 degrees and the game was at the 3 hr. mark and this SECOND out call ends the game then by all means it's time to go.
Pete Booth