Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Well, I like that, even though I've been told the L never has a closely-guarded count.
Now, just to get the discussion back on track, and this question is more for BITS I suppose - since the defender B1 is behind post player A1, would you not count if you knew A1 was not going to make a move for the basket and was simply looking to pass it out to an open guard? Defensive player is behind the dribbler, dribbler is moving "E-W", or even away from the basket? Does proximity to the basket have any effect on whether a count is started or not? If so, how far away from the basket does the player have to be before you decide a count is no longer necessary, and why?
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All good questions. Earlier I said "never" about counting when a post player has the ball.... Never is too strong a word. I do not have a count when it appears likely the post player is or will make a move to the basket. I don't disagree that the post player is closely guarded in this situation, but (at least around here) it isn't done and isn't expected. You're more likely to hear comments about a three second violation in the post than a five second violation.
But if abandons that move, especially if he dribbles out from the post or the defense collapses on him, I'll begin a count. In my mind that is a different play and a different situation.
As for the dribbler moving E-W, it depends on what the defender does. If he maintains a position between the dribbler and the basket, I'll start/keep my count. If defender gets "left behind", then I'm not likely to start or keep my count. The deciding factor really is whether the defender is still guarding or not. If he's just trying to catch up with the dribbler so he can start guarding him again, he isn't "in the path" and isn't guarding.
The rules make no mention of distance from the basket, if you're in the front court, you can have a count. You are more likely to have a count the farther out you go. After all, the offense will pull the ball out when they want to burn clock, and that's the issue the rule exists to address. As you get closer to the basket, the offense will normally either be moving the ball, looking for an opportunity to attack the basket, or they will be taking it to the hole because they have found a clear path.
But that, of course, can change if the ball settles in any one place, including the post, for very long. But, IMHO, we shouldn't be in a hurry to start a count in these cases.