[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by rottiron01

First I would like to thank all of you who tried to answer my post.
I am sorry I did no clarify the situation enough. I am going to give it one more try.

No problem. The other thread was going down a bad rabbit hole, so it's been closed. Let's refrain from turning this into another troll war.

Originally Posted by rottiron01

Slow Pitch Softball
Home plate umpire calls the batter out for being out of the batter box. The batter did step up but there was no box being used. The only lines on the field were the foul lines.

So far, I'm with you. As mentioned before, just because the lines are not laid out, it does not mean that there is no batter's box. If the lines are not present, it's 100% umpire's judgment. Well, even if there ARE lines, it's still umpire's judgment, but it becomes more of a discretionary call.

Originally Posted by rottiron01

There was a runner on first and second. The umpires met and ruled that although the batter did step up there were no lines so they could not determine if the batter would have stepped all the way out of the box when contact with the ball was made.

Again, still with you so far. However, it's still plate umpire's judgment as to whether or not the batter's entire foot was out of where the batter's box would have been when contact was made with the ball.

Originally Posted by rottiron01

The umpires ruled that: Batter gets first base, the runner on first gets third, and the runner from second scored. They used their judgment at the time the ball was picked up by the outfielder. (The outfielders did not hear the batter out call so they made a normal play on the ball.) The offensive team protests the game because they felt the umpire did not know the rule. The offensive team enden up losing by one run. Is this misinterpretation of a rule or not because they changed their call? Can you call "out of the box" if there is no box being utilized?

It depends on why they changed the call. If their reason was "because there is no box, you can't ever call a batter out for stepping out of the box," then they were misinterpreting the rule. If their reason was that the plate umpire simply did not understand that the box was still there, AND the plate umpire was convinced that if the box HAD been there, the batter would have been within or touching the lines with both feet, then they rectified the situation.

To quote ASA for you:

ASA 10-3-C: The plate umpire may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an umpire’s decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a runner or the defensive team in jeopardy.

In this case, if the plate umpire truly felt that he screwed up, he can place the runners where he believes they would have ended up had the screwup not occurred. Generally-speaking, the customary way of remedying this is by awarding the batter 1B, and advancing each runner one base if they are forced to advance. However, there's nothing that says that an umpire can't award more than one base.

However, the troubling issue that I think a lot of us are finding in this post is that the plate umpire reversed his call after meeting with the rest of the umpires. Did the plate umpire seek out the advice of the other umpires? Or did the other umpires go in and speak with him? If the latter is the case, then there's also another rule...

ASA 10-3-B: Under no circumstances will any umpire seek to reverse a decision made by an associate, nor will any umpire criticize or interfere with the duties of their associate(s) unless asked to do so.

I think this is where the rest of this board is getting confused. The impression we're getting is that his partners may have interjected their opinions, which is improper. However, it's up to the umpire who is responsible for the call (in this case, the plate umpire) to make the final call.

These duties and responsibilities are very clearly laid out in the rule book. However, the failure to adhere to Rule 10 is not grounds for protest. They are simply guidelines. The only grounds for protest that the team has is IF the plate umpire ruled that you can't EVER be called out for making contact with the ball while out of the batter's box if there is no batter's box.

Originally Posted by rottiron01

Thanks for any help!

Gladly!

Originally Posted by rottiron01

This is a prison league and these guys complain about every call. Sometimes even when it is in their favor.

Why do I not have trouble believing this...