Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
RD,
I see your point, but don't quite agree with your characterizing either of these situations as false double fouls. Remember new rule defining simultaneous fouls says that the fouls by both teams occur "at approximately the same time" and that is what I think your friend's senario most closely resembles. My PS response was supposed to illustrate another example of a simultaneous foul situation in which one foul was technical and the another was personal. It was the only such situation I could come up with.
I think this could be a splitting hairs, but if we used your solution to my PS and my partner and I decided that the coach's T happened first, wouldn't we now have a dead ball, and hence ignore the foul by the player unless it is intentional or flagrant?
This is why I tried to make it clear that, for theoretical purposes as we probe these foul rules, the fouls happened too close together to tell which happened first.
We both know that in real life someone always fouls first when two fouls happen, but we do still call double fouls in games. Not everything is called a false double, right? The most common double fouls that I see are two post players both pushing and shoving for position (double personal) and two players having words or getting into a shoving match (double technical). If A pushes B and then B pushes A during a dead ball, the officials always call this a double T, I've never seen it called a false double T, even though it was obvious that one player shoved first and the other retaliated.
Do you agree with that?
|
You can have simultaneous technical fouls and you can have simultaneous personal fouls. You cannot have simultaneous fouls that are comprised of a technical and a personal. Also, it can't be a double foul, since at least one attribute of a double foul is missing. And that is the definition of a false double foul.
Also, you're correct that you can't call both unless you call the T for going OOB first and then call the second foul as a technical foul that is either flagrant or intentional.
Now, to answer the question, I would have a personal foul on A1. I would not call the T for going OOB unless the player had previously done this during the game and been warned about it.
There's no need to look for things to call.
Quote:
Originally posted by firedoc
That would make this a false double technical foul.
|
There's no such thing as a false double technical foul. If a T was called on a player and then before the clock started, another T was called, it would simply be a false double foul.
If called the way you describe and the way I described above, I would probably rule this as simultaneous technical fouls. I think it meets the criteria.