Quote:
Originally Posted by ronald
I talked to my association's interpreter and the ruling was as MGK blue pointed out "that you can not advance during a dead ball".
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Well, that is a pretty vague statement that generally is just not true. Runners and BRs routinely advance during a dead ball period.
Quote:
He gave us this rulling in our clinic last Thursday based on a what if scenario he presented to the rules committee in Indiannopolis 2 years ago. He was actually involved in a play that he presented as the "what if".
The scenario.
Bases loaded, 2 outs, and 2 strikes on a left-handed batter. Next pitch, the batter does something with the bat, plate umpire calls it a ball but it got by the catcher and the runner from 3rd scored. After he cleans the plate, batter gets back in box, catcher and pitcher ready and catcher asks pu for help as to whether the batter swung at the last pitch. BU rules a strike. He ruled her out and no run scored for failure to advance. When he presented to the head honchos in Indy, they agreed with his ruling. Really not official as it was in a discussion. Best I can do guys .
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And that is pretty good. As noted, lacking a definitive ruling, this is pretty much a common sense thing. In many cases, all participants are expected to be aware of general information like the count, outs and particular applications under specific game situations.
Let's look at the play again:
Bases loaded, 1 ball, 2 strikes. 2 outs. Next pitch is a strike that the catcher misses. The batter backs away from home plate, the runner from 3rd runs home and is safe on play at the plate. Pitcher covered. Umpire lets the dust settle, calls time, cleans the plate, looks up and sees the batter back to the side and rear of home plate.
First thing I thought was why wash there dust kicked up on a simple force play.
I certainly hope that wasn't something overlooked by the umpire
The scenario doesn't indicate whether the third strike was swinging or called, so let's assume this is a case of the batter not knowing the count. The defense may not have known the count, but at least acted on a bad play. The umpire calls time when he has determined all play is finished which, IMO, would be a proper assumption if he scans the field and does not see any indication of an advancing runner or the defense attempting to retire another runner. Whether the umpire scans the field or not, he has killed the ball. And then the "Oh $hit" exception comes into play.
Like a fair/foul call on which an umpire is blocked out by a player/coach being someplace they are not supposed to be, the benefit of the call is going to the opponent of the team whose member caused the problem. In our case, this was the batter for either failing to know the count or just not being smart or coached well enough to know she should have run toward 1B.
That being the case, I would rule the BR out, discount the run scored and turn around and explain to the OC why s/he just had a run taken off the board. The fact that I errantly called time would allow for some humility on my part. However, at the end of the discussion, I'm going to feel comfortable with that ruling.
BTW, for those who would go the other way and place the BR on 1B, I don't believe that the BR has a right to 1B. I have always seen the U3K as a 'second-chance' situation. The player as already exhausted her alloted opportunities to put the ball into play and failed.
Just as the defense is required to earn the out they failed to achieve by not catching the pitch, IMO, the offense must be held to an equal level of responsibility in "earning" the right to negate the out caused by the batter's failure to put the ball into play by reaching 1B safely, not attaining it through award.
JMHO