[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The rulebook says that you can determine the time by either a count or other information. If the ball was put in play, the clock was supposed to start. If the ball handler took a couple of dribbles, more time came off the clock. In this situation the foul was called and 8:00 was still on the clock. I have definite knowledge the clock should have run. I do not need to actually see the clock run or not run to certain of that fact. And unless someone can show me where it says, "You must watch the clock or you do not have definite knowledge" then I am going to say I have definite knowledge time should have run off the clock or did not start properly. I did not say take 5 seconds or 10 seconds. That would be a stretch. But anyone officiating that tends to watch the clock knows that a second should come off the clock when the ball is touched after a throw in. And if there was a dribble or two, I am certain at least a second has gone off the clock and I could not call a foul with just 8:00 on the clock just because I did not physically see the clock run.

Now at the end of the day do what you feel is best. I just feel no one will say a word and no one can dispute (but on the internet) that a second should not have run off if not more time in this example. I do not care what others say, this is not a committee decision and I also do not feel the intent of the rule was to require that official only had to "see" the clock run or not. That is why they wrote the rule the way they did and gave us other markers to make these decisions. I am sure not everyone is going to agree what they meant by definite. The dictionary definition fits what I would do clearly.

Peace

If all this happens at the start of the quarter, nobody cares. But what if this situation takes place with 3 seconds left in a close game? Do you take off 1 second or 2?