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Originally Posted by hawkishowl20
I would also like to see some of these rules if they are different then the ones I posted. While understandably confusing due to both containing “when 12 or men are on the field” the deciding factor seems to be when the player enters the field, and the player substituted’s reaction. Nothing seems to indicate that if the official messes up by not doing his job or pretending he didn’t he has the right to takes it out on the players by calling a penalty that is impossible to apply if the lesser occurred.
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As a Wisconsin official, I tried working Saturday youth football right after I moved to the state. I gave that up after too many encounters with hothead know-it-alls like this original poster. Now I only work school ball where I have complete control of the situation. I have a varsity crew and if youth football wasn't so disorganized here, I'd have my crew working on Saturdays for experience and for some extra moolah. It just isn't worth it.
Look, OP: You are absolutely right. If the crew (and that's a big if, especially if your organization is CHEEEEEAP and hires only 3 officials to work these games, which is pretty normal, I've found) they are simply not going to get a count in before every snap of the game. If they do, fine, it's a five yard illegal substitution penalty.
If they don't get a count before the snap and 12 play, it's illegal participation, live ball, 15 yards. And before you pass this blame on the officials, WHO PUT 12 ON THE FIELD IN THE FIRST PLACE?
As far as the conduct of the official and your conduct, I would be happy that youth programs where coaches act like you did are able to get any licensed officials to work. Be thankful. I wouldn't touch youth football again unless things changed dramatically around here.