[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"OBR - Sorry, can't find it right now.

"PBUC - nothing listed."

I ask because I have seen MLB umpires twice this year award home on R1 running on a pitch and a long "ground rule double" that bounced over a fence.

Both awards drew a large (long) arguement but neither ended in an ejection or "reversal."

I contend here that under OBR the award is NOT from TOP.

Regards,

Tim,

From the MLBUM, 5.8:

(7) If a fair fly ball is deflected in flight by a fielder and then goes out of play outside the foul lines, the award is two bases from the time of the pitch.

(8) If a fair ball not in flight is deflected by a fielder and then goes out of play, the award is two bases from the time of the pitch.

From JEA:

6.09(f) The batter becomes a runner when any fair ball which, either before or after touching the ground, passes through or under a fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through any opening in the fence or scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery, or vines on the fence, or which sticks in a fence or scoreboard, in which case the batter and the runners shall be entitled to two bases.

Cross References: 6.09(e), 7.05(f)

Historical Notes: This rule was inserted for the first time in the 1950 recodification. It reiterates what is specified in 6.09(e) and it incorporates these additional contingencies:

1. This rule applies to ANY fair ball (one which has bounced or one which is in flight).
2. This rule covers balls which stick in the fence or scoreboard.
3. This rule includes, for the first time, a ground rule to cover any batted, fair ball that goes through any opening in the fence or scoreboard.

Professional Interpretation: A ball which lodges only momentarily and then immediately comes out shall be kept in play as long as it remains in sight.
A ball which disappears from sight by entering an opening in the fence or scoreboard shall be killed immediately.

Awards are made based on the position of the runners at the time of the pitch.

and, in a case play following the discussion of 7.05(f):

Runner on first. The runner is running on the pitch. The batter rips a line shot into right center. The ball bounces once and then disappears in the vines covering the outfield wall. The ball does not reappear. Before the ball disappeared in the vines, the runner from first was half-way to third. Place the runners.

RULING: The ball should be killed when it does not reappear "immediately." Both runner and batter-runner are awarded two bases from time of pitch. It does not matter where the runner/s were at the time the ball was killed.

Also, the J/R and BRD also support the notion that this is a TOP award.

So, I'm not familiar with the 2 sitches you are referring to, but ALL credible interpretation indicates this is a TOP award and I can't find ANYTHING credible that suggest otherwise.

JM