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Originally Posted by Camron Rust
No, touching it again is not what makes it an air dribble...the direction of the bat (upwards) makes it an air dribble.
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So we agree that air dribbles are illegal, but we don't agree on what constitutes one.
A1 is being guarded by B1. A1 has just received a pass and has yet to dribble. A1 throws the ball UPWARDS over B1's head and runs around him. The ball is allowed to strike the floor and A1 catches it.
Legal or not?
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust
No, that would be a carry.
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So what if the ball never came to rest in the hand. Say that the dribbler merely tapped the ball from his right hand to his left.
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust
The limits of what I think might be feasably executable under my suggestion are very narrow....mostly to make the point that two contacts with the ball don't automatically mean it is an illegal dribble. It can mean that...perhaps in most cases...but not automatic.
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VERY WRONG. The rule means exactly that. Two intentional touches during a dribble prior to the ball striking the floor equal a violation.
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Show me where it is required that an interrupted dribble is required to hit the floor. If it is ruled an interrupted dribble, the requirements of a dribble are suspended. A ball must only be "loose" after deflecting off the dribbler to be considered interrupted. We certainly have a deflection. As for "loose", show me a definition that excludes this case. I'm going to consider the ball loose ever so briefly when it deflects off of a part of a player's body when such contact was not intended.
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As you know loss of player control is the key element. It seems that most people are not considering the player to have lost control after he bounced the ball off his foot as it came up right to him and did not momentarily get away from the dribbler. But you can argue that if you wish.
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust
The case Jurrsassic cited is, unfortunately, not actually supported by anything in the rules. The only thing in the rules regarding two hands is qualified with the term simultaneous. It is the general case that two hands touching the ball (with no regard to the timing of the touches) will be an illegal dribble but it is not the precise rule.
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Why are you hung up on TWO hands? You need to focus on TWO separate touches.
The illegal touching could be done by one hand. A player could push the ball downward and forward with his right hand, but then quickly reach out with the same hand and deflect the ball to the side or pull it back to him before it contacts the floor. That movement is illegal as well.
I have no idea why you are attempting to confuse the issue with terms such as "general case" and "precise rule." The dribble is either illegal or it isn't. That's all.