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Originally Posted by PeteBooth
Of Coarse PROVIDED he is NOT obstructed.
Example: B1 hits a gapper. After rounding first base F4 is BLOCKING second base. The BU signals that's OBS.
The runner having NO access to second goes around the fielder en route to third base.
Defense appeals B1 for missing second base.
Based on your response above you would allow the appeal.
If that's how you rule word would get around and coaches would instruct their fielders that when you are the BU to purposely Obstruct runners AND deny them access to the base because on appeal they would get the out.
Remember the defense is the one who screwed up so FULL benefit should be given to the runner. Generally speaking whenever there is OBS at the Bag area, the fielder by his actions is preventing the runner from touching the base.
Also, this is amateur baseball and MC supercedes OBS so you do not want runners "pushing" shoving etc. players. When I played there was no such thing as a player denying access to a base if you "catch my drift" but that was back then. Today is different.
Pete Booth
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I agree that the benefit of all doubts in this situation goes to the
runner, I've never disputed that fact. I am not going to penalize the runner in this situation at all if he is doing what he is suppose to be doing (IE, legally touching each base). Of course, I am not advocating MC. However, each runner is obligated to legally touch each base. Are you suggesting (question is not directed at anyone, fyi!) that if the runner is obstructed 7/8 up the third base line going home, the runner should just walk to the dugout without attempting to touch home? In a sense, he doesn't have to touch home because "obstruction occurred near enough to a base so that it prevented the runner from conveniently touching the bag, a subsequent appeal at the base would be denied."
Let me walk though the play one last time and remove all doubt what I would or would not call. I'll try to cover everything.
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Originally Posted by JJ
FED. B1 hits a ground ball to short. Shortstop's throw is to the home plate side of first (bad throw). B1, seeing it's a bad throw and F3 is coming off the bag toward him, veers around F3 who ever touches the bad throw. The umpire calls "That's obstruction". The throw goes to the fence, and B1 goes safely into second base. The defense then appeals B1 missed first base, which in fact he did. The offensive coach says he missed it because of being obstructed by F3.
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Hit to F6 and BR takes off down to 1B. SS makes a wild throw towards F3 that pulls him off the bag and into the running path of BR. The throw then goes over F3 and to the fence.
{Pause}
At this point, I have NOTHING. I would then gather other information about the play. Is F2 backing up 1B? Since I've already seen the ball reach the fence, that is easy information to obtain.
If F2
is backing up 1B, would BR have a legitimate attempt to reach 2B,
if he had not been obstructed? In most cases (of course this is a matter of opinion), he
would not have a legitimate attempt to reach 2B! Of course that depends on the field, where the ball ends up, etc...
If F2
is not backing up 1B, would BR have a legitimate attempt to reach 2B,
if he had not been obstructed? In most cases (of course this is a matter of opinion), he
would have a legitimate attempt to reach 2B! Of course that depends on the field, where the ball ends up, etc...
(For example, if the ball bounces off the fence directly back to F3 there is no need for F2 to be backing up. BR did not have a legitimate attempt to reach 2B.)
In other words, with the information provided in the original post, you have to assume a lot of things. You
MUST see the play unfold to properly assess whether obstruction occurs. The runner must have a legitimate attempt to advance. The fact that the runner had to veer around F3 does not entitle him to run as far as we wants to advance, it is up to the judgment of the umpire to determine how far he
would have advanced if he had not been obstructed
{Un-Pause}
BR then directly, without touching 1B, goes to 2B and arrives without being putout.
{Pause}
If I called obstruction (see above if I would or not), I call nothing. He has reached the base which I believe he would have advanced if he had not been obstructed. The ball is still live. Therefore, 5-2-2 doesn't even come into play at this point because this is not a dead ball situation.
{Un-Pause}
The defense then makes a proper appeal that BR missed 1B
{Pause}
I would then acknowledge the proper appeal and call BR out for missing 1B.
{Un-Pause}
The offensive coach says he missed it because of being obstructed by F3
{Pause}
I agree Coach, the BR did not touch 1B. Each runner is obligated to legally touch each base before advancing to the next.
(I would then express my opinion about whether obstruction occurred)
In my opinion, F3 did (or did not) obstruct the BR. I believe this because the BR would (or would not) have had a legitimate attempt to advanced to 2B if he had not been obstructed. However, by the BR reaching the base I would have awarded, if obstruction had occurred, the obstruction is ignored. No harm, no foul.
On the other hand, if your BR would have properly touched 1B and stayed there (or then attempted to advance unsuccessfully), then he would have been awarded 2B (if I believe he would have had a legitimate attempt to advanced to 2B if he had not been obstructed).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PeteBooth
If that's how you rule, word would get around and coaches would instruct their fielders that when you are the BU to purposely Obstruct runners AND deny them access to the base because on appeal they would get the out.
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If coaches want to talk about the way I rule, they are more than welcome to do so. Because I will rule the same way
every time! If there is obstruction, the runner will be awarded all the bases I believe he would have advanced to if he had not been obstructed. I [B]ALWAYS[B] give the benefit of the doubt to the runner in this case, however.
Does that clear anything up or just cause confusion? Are we going to agree to disagree on this topic?
-Josh