[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The rules have changed over time, so a historical recital is misleading, inaccurate, and immaterial. The rule is the rule, with no contradiction anywhere official.

That is a rather dumb statement to make. I have the advantage of historical perspective and am able to see the development of rules over a long period of time, thus seeing the rationale (or errors) that contribute to today's text. But you do not have that capability, so rather that admitting it, you denigrate it and declare it to be worthless.

Challenge: In ASA play when a B-R fails to reach 1B and instead enters the dugout, do you call dead ball, declare the B-R out for interference, and return all runners? Same for NFHS, except it is not called interference. However, in a rulebook not affected by a historical typo, the ball is live and runners can advance with liability to be put out in NCAA play.

NCAA Definition: Crow Hop: An illegal act in which the pitcher's rear (pivot) foot leaves the pitcher's plate and recontacts the ground before the release of the pitch.

WHY ISN'T THAT A LEAP? Is a leap also a crow hop? Or is a crow hop also a leap? What the hell do you call?

Oh, I see - it won't be a leap if the stride foot is still on the ground. If the stride foot is still on the ground, then this crow hop occurred at the beginning of the pitch. Oh, yes, that is what WMB keeps trying to say.

NCAA Rule 10.4.d.2: Once having lost contact with the pitcher's plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

OK, you're trying to support your position that a crow hop can occur at the end of a legal drag. So why don't you quote the other rule (10.4.4) which states that " the rear, pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands."

Fact: the stride foot lands before the pitch is released. For most pitchers the ball will be between 12:00 and 3:00 when the stride foot lands.

That is the point that I have consistently made for years; and what I taught as a pitching coach. Once the stride foot lands, you have established the furthermost point the body can travel. Using the pivot foot to help close the hips and propel the body "tall" gains the pitcher no further distance (or advantage) and is legal.

Again from a historical perspective: in 1991 ASA created the crow hop and specifically stated that once the stride foot landed, any action of the pivot foot was legal. And in 2007, the NFHS Softball Guide stated "The base umpire must concentrate on the pitcher's pivot foot but must not confuse the stabbing of the pivot foot in the ground, as she completes her legal pitching delivery with her stride foot forward - with an illegal replant that occurs before the stride foot passes the pivot foot.


I suppose that you would like me to believe that a pitcher, flying through the air, with her stride foot up around her waist and pivot foot dragging behind her, can somehow force her body lower to the earth, buckle the back leg, and then push-off and propel the body further through the air before the stride foot sets down. If that really happens, then it sure would be illegal. (Know what - if she could do this once, she could do it multiple times; crow hopping all the way to home plate before finally setting the stride foot down!)

So tell us how many times you have seen, and called that in NCAA play? Or anywhere? And don't bring up Cat - cause she is legal.

Which brings me to the final paragraph in the 2007 NFHS Guide: "As a reminder, pitchers work long and hard to perfect their skills. It is imperative to realize that most complaints are lodged against good pitchers, and most good pitchers pitch within the rules."

ASA RS 40. F. "Pushing off from a spot other than the pitcher's plate is considered a crow hop and illegal.

An interesting piece of text. The rule simply states that pushing off from a spot other than the pitcher's plate is illegal. That rule actually precedes the ASA invention of the crow hop. But some text writer decided to add a couple extra words when the first POE was written. And it is still there today, even though the referenced rule does not support it.

Enough! Respond if you wish, but I am done!

WMB