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Originally Posted by WestMichBlue
My, oh my. You are so sure of yourself; so arrogant in your interpretation of everything holy in softball rules that you have to demean anyone that has the audacity to challenge your supreme position.
So - here is your challenge for today.
ASA Mens FP. Pitcher takes big leap off plate, toes on pivot foot down. Hands separated, windmill has started. Pivot foot replants 3' in front of plate. Pushes, drags, or otherwise moves away from replant point forward towards batter.
CROW HOP? ? ?
WMB
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No challenge at all. The rule is clear. Drags, no. Otherwise moves away, no. Pushes, absolutely.
As you consistently turn this into a long and special diatribe, I will answer one time, and reference only the definition, rules, and rules supplements. No interpretation, no arrogance; read them and follow them. The rules have changed over time, so a historical recital is misleading, inaccurate, and immaterial. The rule is the rule, with no contradiction anywhere official.
ASA Definition: CROW HOP: Defined as the act of a pitcher who steps, hops or drags off the front of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, thereby establishing a second impetus (or starting point), pushes off from the newly established starting point and completes the delivery.
NFHS Definition: A crow hop is the replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch.
NCAA Definition: Crow Hop: An illegal act in which the pitcher's rear (pivot) foot leaves the pitcher's plate and recontacts the ground before the release of the pitch.
NCAA Rule 10.4.d.2: No crow hopping is allowed. The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher's plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.
ASA RS 40. F. "Pushing off from a spot other than the pitcher's plate is considered a crow hop and illegal.
1. A CROW HOP is defined as a replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch. This can be done by (1) sliding the foot in front, but not in contact with, the pitcher's plate; (2) lifting the pivot foot and stepping forward; or (3) jumping forward from the pitcher's plate with the pivot foot prior to starting the pitch.
STOP!! All of these are crow hops. It may be a step, but it is a crow hop. It may be slide, but it is a crow hop. It may be a leap (and, in MEN'S FP, the leap portion may be legal), but it a crow hop. IF THE PITCHER REPLANTS AND PUSHES FROM ANY SPOT OTHER THAN THE PITCHER'S PLATE, IT IS A CROW HOP!!
There is more text. Some points out that umpires should look at the pivot foot when the hands separate, because if the foot is already off the pitcher's plate, IT IS A CROW HOP. Nothing says, will say, or ever meant that if the hands separated sooner than the replant and push from a spot other than the pitcher's plate that it is NOT a crow hop. Because, that is a crow hop. By the definitions, and the Rule Supplement. Everywhere. Every rule set. It says so.
WMB, I have great respect for you in many areas. You are a leader in the umpire community. This is one area where you have created your own interpretation that is completely outside the actual text of every major rule set, and because you are respected, many umpires believe you. Please, stop preaching that to umpires. You want your pitchers to close their hips by bearing weight; NCAA rule is clear that they cannot. You want umpires to ignore the second push; the rule says we cannot. To call the pitch according to the rules, that is an illegal pitch, because it is a crow hop.
It may, as you have often pointed out, also violate other rules sections. Okay, I get that, too. But it is a crow hop. Telling anyone, umpires, coaches, or pitching students that it isn't a crow hop is wrong, and when they hear only "isn't a crow hop", they hear "it is a legal pitch". It isn't.
It isn't the rule. Read the rule.
And don't blame me in a personal way for making an equally determined statement that you are wrong in what you are saying, and misleading countless others.