[justanotherblue]

OK, lets try this again. Lets start with the mechanics of the play. As the plate umpire, your watching R2 come across the plate as the play on the BR is being made. You notice the missed touch of the plate. You also notice that R2 is returning to touch the plate, so everyone in the stadium knows he missed the touch of the plate. No call should have been made so far during this play. You still have a time play going here, R2s action keep the time play in order. Now BR is out at 2B for the third out BEFORE the touch of the plate. Now I ask you, do you have a run. This is continual action. Publius edited JEA 5.06. So lets put it all in there;

Umpires must be alert for situations in which a runner crosses the plate at about the same time the third out is made on the bases. Unless the third out is a force out, this becomes a "time play" and the umpire must determine whether or not the runner crossed the plate before the third out was made. If he did cross the plate prior to the third out being made, the umpire should signal to the scorekeeper that the run counts. If the third out precedes the runner crossing the plate, the umpire shall likewise notify the scorer that the run does not count.

So how does the run score here? Yes, the runner did cross the plate, so he acquired the plate leaving himself vulnerable to an appeal. The runner attempting to correct his err during unrelaxed actions fails to touch the plate before the third out. In an attempt to protect himself and remove himself from jeapordy. Maybe I don't know what a timing play is, however it sure seems the third out happened BEFORE he touched the plate.

When you have a close play at the plate and a runner slides in avoiding the tag he has passed the plate, therefore acquired it by rule, just as our OP. However he attempts to touch the plate as the alert catcher tags him, he's out, different play yes, however not much different mechanic used in making the call in this play. The continual action keeps you from signaling safe and scoring the run only to remove it when the runner is tagged. Hence no signal and timing. Goes along with damn ...is it Ozzy or Garth, one play one call theory.

When can a runner return to touch his missed base? 7.08k tells us that a runner who overslides or running by and misses home plate and continues on toward his dugout can be put out by appeal, however it also says that if the runner returns immediatly to correct his actions he must be tagged.

So less than two out, his run would count since the there was no play on the runner at home. However the third out was recorded at 2B again BEFORE he could touch the plate, during his attempt to return and touch the plate. So again I ask,....How does the run count?

7.10 also tells us about an appeal on missing home plate. Here again, there is differentiation of attempting to return or adandoning his effort. 7.10 also tells us that no retouch may be allowed during a dead ball. MLBUM 5.3 echos these.

So, is the ball alive or dead after the third out? You tell me.

Bossman says there isn't consistancy with retouching home versus any other base, actually it is the same criteria, except were giving the offense a chance to score if the defense doesn't recognize the missed touch of the plate. Just as the rules are allowing the defense a chance to punish the offense for causing a problem to begin with. The only difference here is there are now three outs. What's the advantage to go back and touch a missed base when there are three outs recorded? The only difference here is were talking a run, versus a missed base. And yes as Bossman also points out, he's screwed, however as Bob also points out, the offense caused the problem to begin with.

Also as Graymule points out, were not aruging the miss or touch of the plate, were arguing if he touched the plate before the third out. Becuase of his change in status from crossing the plate to attempting to touch the plate BEFORE the third out was recorded, which he failed to do.

So again I ask, is the ball alive or dead after the third out is recorded?