[Gimlet25id]

Here's the play that started this conversation...

A1 fumbles the ball in their frontcourt near the timeline. B1 instead of catching the loose ball intentionally pushes the ball to the floor with both of his feet in his frontcourt/"A's" backcourt, where the ball hits the timeline and bounces back up where B1 just continues to dribble the ball back into his backcourt.

When did B1 establish player control? Is this a O & B violation?

NFHS/NCAA are the same in the definition of a dribble..."A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times."

NFHS/NCAA are the same for player control..."A Player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or DRIBBLING a live ball inbounds...."

To rule this play correctly you have to know when player control was established. The key to that on this play is the dribble. When during the dribble does the player get player control? On the release to start the dribble or does the ball have to hit the floor in order for player control to be established. Neither book is clear. What are your thoughts on this.