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I don't have my books next to me, but there is a clause in the Fed. rules that says that in this situation, the referee shall place the ball so that the tail end of the ball is not penetrating the goal line.
As for your scenario where there is a turnover on downs, the ball is to be placed exactly where it was at the start of fourth down and the l.o.s. moves from one end of the ball to the other on the change of possession.
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