[rainmaker]

kbilla -- let's see if I can summarize for you, using a slightly different vocabulary. I'll capitalize the names of the types of fouls so you can differentiate when I'm describing and when I'm naming.

First of all , there's the Intentional Foul. There are two sub-categories of Intentional Fouls. There's the Intentional Foul to stop the clock. This foul is a foul committed on purpose in order to stop the clock. In order to be called Intentional, it must be not a basketball play, not a play on the ball, and so on. It doesn't need to be excessive contact. Examples are two hands on the back or on one shoulder, or grabbing the jersey from the back or side.

Then there's the "excessive contact" Intentional Foul. This foul doesn't have to be on-purpose, just a reckless play on the ball, for example a body slam or a hard two-handed whack that aims for the ball, but hits the head by mistake. Remember, it doesn't have to be done on purpose. It doesn't have to be intended to be violent or excessive. The excess is usually accidental or careless.

Regarding contact, Flagrant fouls are violent or savage contact that constitutes fighting. It's not about basketball anymore, it's just me getting a piece of you, so to speak. Even an Intentional foul that's reckless but intended to stop the clock isn't flagrant. Even if the contact is really, really rough, unless it constitutes fighting, it's just an Intentional, and never Flagrant or Technical.

All those definitions are with regard to contact during a live ball.