[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Larks

I don't disagree and I'm not suggesting that.

EXACTLY - So why not make sure we are ALL on the same page. I guarantee this was covered in the umpires meeting! Why not make sure we are ALL on the same page??

I've don't ever recall having such a discussion in the umpire's meeting. I'm sure it may somewhere, but probably only when an umpire makes a comment about a local rule for effect.

I don't disagree that this starts locally. But look at it from my side of the coin - In Cincinnati, ASA registers more teams than several states combined. We are talking thousands of games being played before the nationals and none of them use this rule. Isn't it therefore reasonable that teams from our area could fall into this problem? Actually, I know 3 teams that did. For the quality of play, why would you NOT want to address this? You mentioned stealing - when stealing is NOT permitted, umps mention it in ground rules. Why cant this be any different just the other way around?

Okay, you are still talking about what is done locally. You guys have a big program and I'm familiar with a couple umpires from that area, but other than the size and level of play, we didn't discuss any local rules before going on the field, nor did we cover them in ground rules. Maybe it's the level of tournaments I've worked where it just isn't an issue.

Actually - that wasn't my main point and its not about upper level envy - its about consistency of a rule for essentially the same sport and preventative officiating. Its not a rule in A but is in B & C and logically that doesn't make sense.

Actually, the rule wasn't changed for the players, but as a deterant of the player's rituals.

Here is where I get confused....why is it that an attempt to talk about possible ASA rule changes reverts to a bat discussion by the guy who started the conversation?

Okay, I went off subject. I'll try not to go off again.

What frustrates me is you have an attitude that we are ALL a bunch of sh$t talking fat a$$ beer drinking wannabe bomb hitters rather than interacting with me as a coach or participant in the sport. If the disposition towards men's slow pitch within ASA leadership is similar to yours - WHY BOTHER?

That isn't necessarily so. I'm well aware of the SP program and probably one of the biggest defenders of the game. Don't believe me, ask everyone else on this board how I react when someone makes a comment like you did above. People who want to be better and play the game as you profess to be are not the problem. It's the wannabes and trophy hunters and the fat a$$, $hit talking idiots. They are dragging the game down with their BS and it hurts everyone.

If you ask for rule changes and a particpant offers one, Why play the old "read the book and go to class" card? Is that the best you can do? Are you really so narrow minded that you are unwilling to even consider the fact that this rule affects teams unnecessarily. You are willing as an organization to modify it for the "big boys"....what was the justification there? Because the teams wanted it right?.

No, that isn't why. It was modified to keep the game moving. It was originally changed when the supers were still around and has descended with the highest level of ASA play. The rule was changed to keep the players in the dugout. A HR used to take nearly 4-5 minutes because the dugout would empty as the player "trotted" around the bases. At the plate, everyone had to slap this or bump that. By the time everyone got back into the dugout, you could have finished an inning in some games. Even now where the highest level is limited to 8 HRs, if this practiced continued, just running out the 16 HRs would encompass one hour of playing time if you could hold it down to 3-4 minutes. Without running the HR, a player is back in the dugout and the next batter in the box usually in less than a minute.

I don't disagree that we should know the rules but again, you are missing the point - In my opinion, which you will obviously will never agree with the opinion of a beer drinking bomb hitting sh$t talker....but nonetheless, the ASA can and should do a better job with how they handle this specific rule since it is being selectively enforced. You can call it what you want....local rules, umps doing the wrong thing....TDs giving in to pressure from teams.....Bottom line - Its inconsistent from my point of view as a coach.

Let me ask you this (Chuck will get you another cold one). ASA's rules are specifically for "championship play." Shouldn't the person/group altering the rules be the ones resonsible for educating those who play under them? ASA only has one set of rules used in all their tournaments. Alterations are made without their knowledge and vary depending on where you are standing in the country.

In some areas, teams play using a full count, 4-3. Other parts of the country use a 3-2 count. Yet in another, it is a 3-2 count with a courtesy foul. This same area may force the player to run out all home runs. Five hundred miles away, walk off, but in the next town, the rule is touch one base and walk off (BTW, one of the dumbest things I've ever heard). In CA, they may use a mat for balls and strikes. Somewhere else, a ball that hits the plate is a strike. Some places allow a team to use two EPs, or even bat the bench. Some will allow teams to play shorthanded by more than a single player while others will not impose the out for a missing player in the batting order. Some areas have adopted the 2nd plate and commit line.

There are at least another dozen possible variations of pretty standard rules, but the point is, how would ASA know where to start? Maybe they will cover issues that satisfy your needs, but not the next guy's because they are unaware of what is being done in their home town or league.

It would require a clinic to cover everything and that is asking a lot of a crew.