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Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 12:38pm
tmielke tmielke is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Charlevoix, MI
Posts: 50
Wow, I didn't think that I was a RAT. Oh well.

Yes, I did what I did intentionally. I knew that we would have to take an out in that position in the order if we did have to bat. What I was not sure about was if there was a penalty for the illegal sub on the field. I did not have much time to make my decision and did not want to ask as I felt I might not like the answer, so I decided to send the player out there and deal with the consequences when and if they came up. The illegal sub was never involved in a play. The opposing team never said anything/noticed.

As for the RAT and other implications. When I am coaching I care about who wins the games. When I am umpiring I don't. I make my decisions, whether coaching or umpiring based on my knowledge of the rules and my ability to apply them quickly. As both a coach and umpire I am relatively inexperienced.

This was not championship play. It was the first game of an invitational.

With all that said, I did look up Section 4.6 in the ASA rulebook.

When looking at a rule, and you need to make a decision for your team, if you understand and are willing to accept the consequences is it OK to violate a rule?

In the situation of an unreported defensive sub:

Scenario 1
If the opposing team notifies the umpire before a pitch, the unreported sub must leave the game. No big deal

Scenario 2
If the opposing team notifies the umpire after a pitch, the unreported sub is disqualified from the game. Most likely no big deal if I understood the consequences of getting caught.

Scenario 3
If the unreported sub makes a play and the opposing team notifies the umpire prior to the next pitch, the unreported sub is disqualified and the offensive team can accept the results of the play or get a "do over". No downside here either. If the offensive team wants a "do over" and the unreported sub was involved in the play, this play would most likely have had a negative outcome had the unreported sub not been in the game. This could actually seen as a positive result for my team.

Scenario 4
If the unreported sub makes a play and the opposing team notifies the umpire after the next pitch, the unreported sub is disqualified and the play stands. Still no downside, play stands and I am back to 8 on defense.

In my situation, the only downside would be if the sub for the starter I put back in illegally was injured, it could be a forfeit. Likely not though. If the girl wasn't hurt bad enough to leave the dugout, she could at least go stand in fair territory against the outfield fence.

All the rest of the consequences really don't penalize the defensive team. Look at it this way. Umpire - "Coach that player has to leave the field". Me "ok". Now I have 8 defensive players which is what I would have had anyways.

If the unreported sub isn't noticed and makes a play, then is noticed. It is at worse for me do over after the player is disqualified. Now the rest of my defense has an opportunity to get an out that may not have happened the first time through with only 8 players on the field.

Wearing my coaching hat, depending on the situation, I might try it again.

Wearing my umpire had, at least I have a much better understanding of the substitution rules.

There was a question somewhere in this post. Shoot away!
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