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Originally Posted by drinkeii
If I have my hand on the hip of a dribbler, and I'm attempting to guide his motion, and do so, i'm fouling according to the rules. Do most refs call this as a hand check? No - most would look for more than a slight effect - applying that judgement. What if they shove?
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Just because the hand is there and they're attempting to direct the player doesn't mean they're successful at it.
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Originally Posted by drinkeii
And we're ignoring things which are blank and white. There are officials who won't make a 3 seconds call, and are proud of that fact. Where in the rules does it say we should ignore that? It says when to and when not to call it. No judgement involved.
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There are some people that need every permutation and combination of possible event put down on paper. Unfortuately, the rulebook is writtent to be a small and compact as possible because it leads to a better understanding by MOST people. Every authority on the matter is fully consistent on the intent and purpose of the 3 seconds rule and how it is expected to be called. Not everything about officiating a game is written in the rulebook.
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Originally Posted by drinkeii
In my original example (well, a few posts in) - a player has his legs taken out from under him. It is clearly a foul - B ran into A trying to steal the ball, interfere with a pass, etc - but he clearly initiated contact which was NOT incidental. A2 gets the pass and puts it in the basket. Do we call the original foul, or allow the basket to stand? Do the rules support ignoring fouls like that (or considering them an application of "advantage"), if the team as a whole benefits? It's a yes or no question.
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Just because the contact is obvious and/or substantial doesn't mean that it is a foul. It is, by definition, incidental if the official judges that team A was not disadvantaged.
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Originally Posted by drinkeii
In soccer, (and yes, I know it is a different sport) - we acknowledge a foul - it was a foul, and we specifically noted it as such by applying advantage - and allow play to continue even though there was a clear foul. I'm saying - do we do the same thing in basketball, but not "acknowledge" the foul? You're saying it isn't a foul. I'm saying it is - do we ignore it in favor of the advantage gained by the team by completing the pass and making the basket, or call the foul?
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It is fundamentally different than soccer...where contact is clearly defined as always a foul but is only called and penalized based on advantage.