[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

First I think you are all missing my point. Second, I haven't once questioned your personal abilitly to ref, yet by your responses, you have, some in polite, others in direct ways, put me down simpley for being a coach and/or ignorant of the rules, which I find kinda arrogant and condesending.

I think you really need to learn reading comprehension.

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

From the lastest barrage of responses, I find it hard to believe that you would think a ref wouldn't know the rules at the MS level. Your examples of a 13 yr old knowing more than a coach, I concede that that may be true, but in a rare situation. Why say that anyway? Do you think that because I am a coach, or do you think that some 13yr olds know more than you refs too??

Once again I think you need to learn to understand what is written. If officials are starting at the MS level, do you think they know everything there is to know about officiating? That probably means they do not have the best grasp of the rules. Many rules and judgment are not grasped until several years of working games. Same goes for players and coaches when it comes to playing the game. Michael Jordan did not become a great player at the JH level.

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

Using parents calling me on the carpet for plays is completely different than reffing. reffing has a set standard rules. Coaching does not. One coach may run this while another doesn't. Although we are bound by human error, to link the two is delinquent.

I disagree with your answer, but that just shows you do not want to take responsibility for your actions.

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

My final point in all of this is, I was being honest. I never once condemed you personally. I never pointed a finger. I simply stated my opinion and what I got back was some refs who apparently feel slighted in some way. How, I don't know. Did I ever say that you were losers who didn't know what you were doing?? No I simply talked about the refs I experience...not you. To be honest again, I get the impression that you who responded to my posts think coaches are basically the bottom feeders of knowledge and talent. I heard someone make the comment,"I find it arrogant that a middle school coach actually thinks he knows more than people that likely had to pass a written test and probably attended training classes to discuss everything from rules to mechanic."

Well I stated my opinion. If you do not like the opinion that you were given, well you have a couple of choices. You can either accept those opinions as being different than yours, or you can whine that people do not agree with you. I guess you do have another choice, you can leave and you will never have to worry about what anyone says.

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

So taking a written test means you now more?? Just asking. I think that is arrogant. For the record, I never said that I know more. NEVER! But to think that a ref is above the coach in knowledge is just as arrogant as thinking a 13 yr old is above a coach in knowledge. Listen, the bottom line is, I never called you out personally. I never bad mouthed you on this board. I never said that refs don't know anything. I simply shared my experiences and got tarred and feathered for it. I understand your plight. I would hate to be yelled at every game and think I'm a jerk by parents and coaches alike. I guess i will limit my posts to questions now, knowing that if I share my opinion as a coach I will be, belittled, put down, and made to feel stupid under the mighty knowledge and authority that is a ref! sorry if I hurt anyones feeling I will shut up in the future and only ask questions. thank you for answering my question in the beggining I appreciate your input and knowledge.

I can speak for myself only. I never said they knew more, I said they have been through more training than you have. Even if all an official did was have to take a test that is more rules knowledge than the vast majority of coaches go through in a career. Then depending on the area, that official had to take classes and other requirements before even stepping onto the court. Now we are assuming that we are talking about brand new refs. It is very likely that you got veterans that have likely worked more games in a season than you will see in a few years. I do not know I also do not ultimately care. But you were given a lot of answers and you choose not to accept them. None of us where there and as far as I am concerned, you are a middle school coach. I seriously doubt that anyone is putting full page articles about your team on a game by game basis. Put the games in perspective. We have already told you why you do not get the top officials and you keep insisting that we cannot accept what happen in games we did not witness. Dude, get a grip and teach your players better. I cannot imagine that there are many teams at that level that are so good that night in and night out you are struggling to compete with equally talented teams and the officials are the reason you are losing.

Peace