[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

What does this have to do with the subject we are discussing? Are we a little off-track here or is it you can't articulate your position and now you are digressing to insults. Now who's the child?

I think I've articulated my position pretty clearly. Have you read these posts?

Originally Posted by rainmaker

What you're asking is what to do if the "established guy" tries to pull rank and insist on overruling you, you finish the game as best you can and then you report to the assignor that you don't want to work with him again and why. But none of that has anything to do with what the OP posted, or with what JR was talking about.

What JR was talking about was the rules as published, and the books where those rules are printed. You have never given any indication that you even care about the books, or the rules. What you do in a certain situation is completely irrelevant to the OP. You just set up a straw man (do you know what that means?) and then knock it over, but you don't address the original situation.

The OP asked, "He's the veteran, what else could I do?" JR is telling him what the rules say about what OP could have done. You have your own opinions, but so what? As officials we follow rules as written, with some flexibility within what's prescribed.

What OP could have done was to go to the table and say, "I called such and so, and that's what we're going to do" and then go to the appropriate place and get play started. If partner is *** enough to try to overrule at that point, then you let him be the one that walks away or stops the game inappropriately. Arguing is pointless. For the OP to stand up for himself and be firm isn't starting a war. It isn't either "my way or the highway" for the R. The U can stand firm without coming to blows, and that's what the rule book prescribes.

Originally Posted by rainmaker

The problem is that there's a false dichotomy set up here. This isn't an either/or situation.

Of course if the partner gets nasty and starts yelling and gesticulating, you back down.

But that's not generally the problem. Generally, the newer, less experienced ref (who is also generally not the R) isn't sure whether to insist on his way, or not. When we say here that the R does not have the right to overrule the U, we're saying that the U needs to learn how to appropriately assert his own call, and administer it in a reasonable fashion.

Whoever calls something has the right to go ahead and administer that call. No one has the right to overrule. If the "more experienced" ref tries to step in and insist on overruling, then the other calling official needs to know how to assert himself in an appropirate manner. It can be done. And it doesn't have to lead to blows or yelling.

If I make a call and my partner insists on being obnoxious, I might back down for the sake of protecting the integrity of the game, or I might stand firm for the sake of the integrity of the game. Either way, I'm gonna report the idiot. And I have.

What OP needs to know, is that yelling, fighting in public scenario isn't all that common, and it's not something that needs to be worried about. If OP will calmly but firmly manage the situation and assert his own correctness (even when he's wrong!), 90% (or more!) of partners will cope with it, and back down. Which is, btw, the right thing to do.