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Originally Posted by M&M Guy
And, the common thread to your examples is these are all participants in the game. The rule says "opponents", but I would have no problem with adding teammates, other coaches, table personnel, etc. in to the mix, all of these being participants in the game.
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How about between the officials then?
M&M,
I understand the case that you are making and do believe that it has merit. However, what carries more weight for me is that this rule was clearly put in to prevent the bench personnel from escalating a volatile situation.
The idea is that if the number of people involved can be limited by means of a harsh deterrent (flagrant T just for leaving the bench area), then the game officials and the game management staff have a better chance of controlling the incident. (You probably agree with that.)
The message that the NFHS wants to get across to the teams is
DON'T LEAVE THE BENCH when there is a problem elsewhere.
Now if you are unconvinced by that argument, then I have another one. Let me concede that the altercation in the stands is not a “fight” by the NFHS definition and that rule 4-18 does not apply.
I believe that the letter of the law would still justify disqualifications in this situation under 10-4-4. This is because the NFHS added "
or when a fight may break out" to 10-4-4 in 2004-05 and commented:
PLAYER(S) EJECTED FOR LEAVING BENCH IF FIGHT MAY OCCUR (10-4-4): A bench player will now be ejected if he or she leaves the confines of the bench during a fight or when a fight may break out. Previously there was no coverage in the rules book when bench personnel left the bench when two or more players confronted one another but no fight occurred. These volatile situations can easily degenerate into a fight or worse by the presence of team members from the bench. The penalty is now the same as for leaving the bench during a fight, ejection.
Now is this a situation in which a fight
MAY break out? I think that one can reasonably conclude that it is. Thus whether or not a “fight” is actually occurring is not the relevant issue, and the disqualifications are justified by the book
Would I enforce those penalties? It's very difficult to say in an internet forum. I would have to be in the situation and make the decision that I believed was correct.
That is what BDR did, and it seems that he handled it well. I can't say for sure because I wasn't there, but I'm not going to second guess his judgment. However, when he comes on this forum and specifically asks about what the rule says to do, I will give him my opinion in the hope that it helps him to be a better and more prepared official. (For example, knowing that even if he had decided that four ejections were warranted and called four flagrant Ts, only 2 FTs would be awarded to the opponents is a crucial bit of rules information that can be gained from discussions such as this.) Afterall, the main purpose of what we write here is to gain a better understanding of how to officiate a basketball game.