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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
I agree the official needs to speak intelligently. Telling him/her that you were out of position isn't intelligent.
You've left it open that perhaps the official should be looking in that area. Instead, the official could say, "Coach, I had a strong matchup and followed the ball carrier to the hoop."
Never admit incompetency.
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Incompetence? Now who is making this more complicated?
The point is you should not make a coach believe you knew something you did not. Telling them you were not in a position to see something is not at all incompetent. It is the truth. Coaches need to understand that not everyone is looking at the same thing. It is really that simple. Remember, you said "NEVER" as it related to this topic. I am just taking a point of view that "NEVER" is too board.
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
So you tell him you weren't in the right position to see something your P is responsible for? Of course you're not in the right position! Where you should be is dictated by your responsibilities, not your P's. If you do see something your P is responsible for, it's a bonus if the crew grabs it.
I agree with this. It's simple: "He can answer your question better than I can."
If you're with a newbie, and you, the senior, more experienced official of the crew, admit to being out of position, I see a coach unsure of officiating ability.
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I think you are taking the "out of position" part too personally. Being not in position to make a call can mean a lot of things. I know if I am on the other side of the court and there is an out of bounds call made by my partner, I am probably not in a good position to make a call or help my partner. So when the coach wants me to help him out, I can clearly tell the coach “I am not in position to see whether he stepped on the line.”
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Over the back? Reaches? What are those, again? In the coaches mind, most likely an over the back call is his player being displaced. He doesn't care what you name the supposed illegal act, just that it gets penalized. If it truly was a 'push' (and by all means should have been a foul), but the coach calls it an 'over the back', are you going to tell him that you don't call OTBs? You're better off to say, "There was no advantage", or "We've called it the same at each end, play on."
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You do not have to agree with my point of view on this. I just took an opposition on your comments because you said "NEVER" and there clearly is a time I can think of where those comments would apply within some context. Also I have "NEVER" heard a clinician or much more experienced official (while attending a clinic or talking to about the game) to never say those things. As a matter of fact I have heard many officials (clinicians for example) to tell a coach all kinds of things to make it clear they were "out of position" to know what happen or to make a call. Being out of position does not always have to deal with incompetence. Being out of position might have might have to be the fact the system put you in a position to call only certain things. Also I do care what a coach calls a particular foul, because "over the back" is not a foul nor has anything to do with the actual rule. So to me it matters what types of fouls they describe. I might not comment the first time those terms are used, but when a coach is complaining every time of the court about "over the back" and "reaching" we might have to have a little talk.
Also it really does not matter if we agree on all of this. If I have learned anything from this site or talking to other officials over the years and in the multiple sports I work, not everyone is going to agree on what works and what does not when dealing with coaches. If you feel those things should never be said, you definitely have the right to feel that way. I also know that talking to coaches is an art and one size does not fit all. A lot of success talking to coaches is your body language, facial expressions and your previous history with a coach and the general demeanor the coach has can all change what you say and what you do not say. I also think the most important issue is to fit your personality. When I attended a camp this summer one of the clinicians stated that Jim Burr is a very serious official that does not take a lot of crap. He tends to have a surly demeanor and no one messes with him during games. Tim Higgins is known as the complete opposite of Burr's demeanor. Higgins is known to tell jokes, keep everyone on the court in stitches with laughter and no one messes with him. Both Burr and Higgins are considered to be pretty much similar in talent and ability. Both work all the big games on TV (or at least is seems that way) and have the same kind of respect from the coaches that they work with. Both do not have the same approach to the game, but get the job done when it counts. So JR if you do not like to use certain words that is great if it works for you. It just might not work for me.
Peace