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Originally Posted by rainmaker
Camron -- you and I have debated this before, and I know there's not a lot of agreement between us. I don't think this is the place for this discussion. The basic fact is that women don't stick around because they don't see any point to sticking around. If they're good they move up to college. If they're not, they just quit. I know these are facts because I talk to these people.
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You just proved my point....they're either so good they move past HS or, if they're not that good, they bolt before they've even been around long enough to get anywhere...not realizing they were already getting there faster than the males that started at the same time. The few that have stuck around long enough
do get boys varisty games and do get into the tourney...but there are few. It's easy to quit after 2-3 years and blame the system rather than actually work the 10, 15, or even 20 years it takes to actually get to the top.
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Originally Posted by rainmaker
Also, even if the PBOA changes their tournament selection process, there's still the whole OSAA thing to get around. How will having both boys' and girls' tournaments at the same time, same site, make it more likely for women to get to the tournament? Has it helped at 1A, or 2A in the past? Fact is, this is going to be retrograde, and I personally think it's at least partially....
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Not sure what you mean....it sounds like you may be a little out of date with your info. The OSAA, with the goal of getting more females into better tourney games and have more of the top men working the mid/lower level girls games,
was considering having ALL levels (1A - 6A) be combined boys/girls tourneys and requiring that officials at those tourneys work at least one game of each gender. The hope was that this would get some women chances to work some upper level boys tourney games.
However, the slots would fill from the top of the vote rankings in a predictable fashion. The top ranking men have historically selected a lower lever combined boys/girls tourney than the higher level girls-only tourney and will likely to continue to do so. But, with them all being combined, they men would select the highest level tourney. Unless the female was at the very top of the votes in their association such a system would actually make it less likely that female officials would get to work a high level girls game than the current system since it would more likely be taken. This proposal would have had an effect opposite of what was desired...virtually eliminating women from all the top level tourneys for at least the near future
So, they decided to split the boys and girls for the 5A and 6A levels. Men will likely select the 4A combined over the 5A girls and quite probably over the 6A girls as well. So, all else equal, the women will have at least as good a shot at the 5A and 6A girls as before. If they chose a combined tourney, they'll be working at least one boys tournament game.
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Originally Posted by rainmaker
no, I'm not going to say that. No point.
Lastly, even if PBOA is the most enlightened organization in the country, what about the rest of the state? It's even more neanderthal in Burns, Medford, Pendleton and even Eugene than it is here in Portland. Ya gotta admit, there's not a lot of future for women in high school basketball officiating in Oregon.
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Certainly not if they quit well before giving it the many, many year that the men give it....as you claim to know is the case. I kown absolutely nothing about how other associations do their business. Perhaps it is lagging Portland. But if your description is any indication, there aren't enough good women officials willing to pay their dues to change things.
Do you really think it'd be fair to have someone who's been working to get get improve and move up for 15-20 years to get games taken away and given to a 4th or 5th year official who's not nearly as good (yet). If someone wants to get to the top, they must be willing to put in same level of the effort, dedication, determination, and patience to get there as those that are there have already done. Noone can expect an express pass to leapfrog them ahead of those who've working for those same spots for over a decade.
Yes, there are a lot of men at the top but they didn't get there overnight.