[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

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This being a Christian founded nation (fact, just do the research and don't try to argue the point)

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Now, don't even come back and say that this nation was founded by "diests" and "agnostics" because that is a lie, and the people who say it know it's a lie. The founding fathers, by and large, were God fearing, Christian men, and put that faith into every single document and law that this great nation was built with. I can produce hundreds of quotations to back this up, so don't even try to refute what I say. Just read The Federalist Papers by John Jay and Thomas Jefferson for starters.

"If Religion be not within cognizance of Civil Government, how can its legal establishment be said to be necessary to Civil Government? What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of Civil authority; in many instances they have seen the upholding of the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberty of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it (liberty) needs them not.”

James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, June 20, 1785

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and i do not find in our particular superstition of christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
"- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia

"The United States was in no sense founded on the Christian religion."

The 1796 treaty with Tripoli, written under the direction of President George Washington and signed by President John Adams

"all natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit"-

Thomas Paine

"Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

Benjamin Franklin, Works, Vol. VII


Thomas Jefferson's original words: "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable," were changed by congress to read "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights."

My point? Yes, there were Christians among the founding fathers, and Jews and Freemasons and Deists and atheists. They all worked together to keep religion out of government.

And, since you are too polite to ask, yes, I consider myself a practicing, church attending, parish council member, Christian. But my faith doesn't require that I ignore history.