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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
The only real evidence that we have is the video, unless you've got some other evidence that we aren't privy to. That video clearly shows the Lawrence kid starting the fracas with his push. Or are you saying that there wasn't a push?
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I'm saying we don't know what happened in the entire game leading up to the one trip down the floor we saw. I agree--the only evidence we have is the video. I don't think this kind of thing happens as a result of one trip down the floor. It's certainly possible the attacker actually "instigated" the previous trip down the floor, or the one before that, or in the first quarter. You're right...we don't know. So we can't for sure say the Lawrence kid was the instigator without having been there...for the very reasons you give (there's evidence we're not privy to).
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
On your other statement, I'd also like to know how you know that the officials are partially to blame also. Did you see anything else but the video posted at the start of this thread? Were you at this game? Could you please give us some explicit examples of exactly where the officials failed to keep control of this game?
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That's fair enough...I wasn't there. But think about a game you've officiated or seen where there has been a fight. (I've had one in my seven years.) It is the
extreme exception for something like this to spring up out of the blue. In the game I officiated with a fight, I know there were things my partner and I could have done differently to prevent the swings from starting...in this game, it was ugly picks. If I call them, is there a fight? I doubt it. Maybe, though. Either way, I cannot wash my hands of my responsibility.
I wasn't at this game, but I'm willing to bet that it's a similar case, and if the officials are anything like me, I bet they feel awful about it. There's no way to prove it, as we agree, but I'd bet a C-note this fracas could have been prevented with tighter officiating earlier. At the very least, an official could have caught the Lawrence push, tooted the whistle repeatedly, and closed in before the Wichita kid has a chance to swing. I know...hindsight is 20/20.
It's not my intention to slam or attack the officials here, or anywhere, ever. (After all, there but for the grace of God go any of us...if we haven't been there already.) But I don't think it's an attack to observe that this situation likely could have been avoided...to try to learn from it.
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
That was not an unprovoked attack. Note that certainly doesn't exonerate the Wichita kid; both kids are equally to blame imo. Trying to hold the Lawrence kid blameless though is just ridiculous.
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I haven't done that. However...and this point keeps getting lost...punching an unconscious kid is four times never justified. I don't care what the kid did to bring on the first punch...when he's out cold, the fight ends. Anyone who punches an unconscious person in the face four times has serious problems. He may have had a push coming, or even a punch. But not once he's unconscious.
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Note- that's my opinion. Nobody is gonna answer anything to your satisfaction either obviously; your opinion is completely different. We're just gonna haveta disagree on this one.
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And we will. I appreciate your civility.