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Originally Posted by Justme
Okay I'm confused. Doesn't the ball have to beat the runner to any base for there to be a play? No ball no play right?
Were your trying to say that on a force play the runner has to reach the base before the fielder catches the ball and touches the base?
Were you also trying to say that on a tag play the fielder has to tag the runner before he reaches the base?
On a tag play the throw can beat the runner to a base and the runner still be safe. There has to be a tag to have an out (on a non-force situation).
If you don't clearly see that the fielder made the tag then the runner is safe. You can't call what you don't see.
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When I say Throw/tag, that distinguishes between the two DIFFERENT play types.
But OK, I'll spell it out...
If you don't clearly see the runner beat the Tag, OUT.
If you don't clearly see the runner beat the Throw, OUT.
Also, I agree completely with Pete's assessment.
On Tuesday, I had two close plays at 1st with the same timing;
a) Slow roller hit to F6, speedster at bat. F6 bare hands the ball and makes a great throw to 1st. OUT ! (no arguments)
b) Hard grounder hit to F5, bounces off his glove, picked up by F6, thrown into the dirt and one hopped by F3. SAFE ! (no arguments)
In both of these plays, the ball to glove / runner to base, timing was the same.
Just goes to show you, that even though we have a nice set of rules, it still isn't Black and White.