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Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
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Originally posted by BadNewsRef
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Originally posted by Nevadaref
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Rule Refs to back this:
4-23-1 "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent."
and the Simplified and Illustrated diagram on the top of page 27.
Plus there used to be a case play in which B1 falls to the floor in the lane and dribbler A1 trips over him. The ruling stated that it was not a foul on B1 as he was entitled to any spot on the floor even if he was momentarily lying down on it. I can't locate that play right now though.
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That is not the case in either the NFHS nor NCAA rulebooks. NCAA specifically says that this scenario is a foul on B1.
NCAA Rule 4 Section 33 A.R. 23. B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his/her back to B1, who is
prone) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt to drive to the basket, trips and
falls over B1. RULING: Foul on B1, who has taken an illegal defensive position.
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It's a foul on B1 under NCAA rules, as you stated. Under NFHS rules, it's not a foul unless the player on the floor tried to trip or block the offensive player. The language of the case play said "he/she is entitled to a position on the court even if it is momentarily lying on the floor after falling down." That case play was 10.6.1SitE in last year's case book.
But.....this particular play is still not relevant to the rules discussion we were having. It doesn't involve shoulder to torso contact in any way.
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JR, Thanks for finding that casebook play. I knew that it existed. I do have to wonder why it isn't included in this year's version though. What do you think about the rebounding play? Does it provide an adequate example for your parameters?
PS Back from the crypt otherwise known as Las Vegas night life, where I spent the opening weekend of the NCAA tourney. Hopefully, I wasn't observed by some of those NCAA people who were stationed there to monitor the gaming situation surrounding March Madness!
BNR, Yes, I am aware that the college ruling on this play is different. It has even been discussed on this forum in the past. Since JR desired an example, and I know that he doesn't work NCAA ball, I referenced NFHS rules in my previous post. I never claimed that the NCAA rule was the same, however, you have unfortunately claimed that the NFHS ruling is what the NCAA follows. Perhaps your situation is just opposite from JR's and you only officiate at the NCAA level, and thus weren't aware of the HS rule.