Quote:
Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Quote:
Originally posted by wadeintothem
Quote:
Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
I think you need to reread the rule. This applies to a squeeze play or steal. Simply running on the pitch is neither. Like many other instances, the umpire is going to need to render a judgment on the play.
BTW, if I'm R1 and the B takes a full cut while I'm attempting to steal home, that SOB better keep running straight to the parking lot beyond 1B, 'cause if I catch'em, I'm going to hurt them! 
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HAHAHA
OK Mike, good save, you saw the error of your original ruling realizing you were disadvantaging the offense if you maintained your position..
Now we'll see if ed and wmb will backtrack as well.. as a matter of fact you two can feel free to use the "theres a difference between leaving on the pitch and stealing" line to save face if you need to, but both of you should realize as mike has that you were interpretting it wrong originally... and I wouldnt suggest WMB that you submit anything to a rule committe yet until you understand the rule.
HAHAHAH
That was good one mike. Ya gave me a laugh over morning cofffee. You are unique to say the least.
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I backed up on nothing. It seems you are insisting on interjecting a preconceived manner in which to handle this.
If you don't like the rule, attempt to have it changed. [/B]
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Yes you did, you initally agreed with ed and wmb on applying 8.1.4.d on this hit.. ie immediate dead ball (no play at first etc).. to now you are saying " the umpire is going to need to render a judgment on the play"...
You cant have it both ways (judgement on the play or IMMEDIATE DB), youre going to need to pick what way to go after the hit.. immediate dead ball and applying 8.1.4.d regardless of result of hit or delaying the DB to observe how it plays out (F3 possibly misses throw, errors ensue .. BR eventually gets all the way home.. ball is hit hard..or whatever.)
Unless of course you are advocating a new cal "Delayed Immediate Dead Ball" ...
Either every one of you is jumping up yelling "deadball" IMMEDIATELY _OR_ you are effectively DDB and observing what happens to with the hit... but you cant use judgement on the result of the hit by the batter/play AND immediately call DB.. its impossible. Its one or the other..
Batter hit by pitch - blam dead ball. You call dead ball.. even if a runner is going, BR running to first, whatever... Every umpire and coach on earth knows it. The play is killed, no if ands or buts.. no matter what happens. There is no judgement involved. There is no need to know whether F3 made the catch for the easy out or whatever.
Simple..
Batter hits pitch despite CO.. play made for easy OUT at first.. you have DDB and apply CO.
Its almost a defacto DDB given the scenario..
Now youre on the fence of your call IMO..
So which is it mike? You are jumping up with WMB declaring the play dead - DB IMMEDIATELY --- or you are observing to see how the hit plays out and using judgement with DDB.
Not both - its one or the other..
For me, I think its obvious I am correctly obseving to see what happens with the hit not calling immediately DB just because runners are going so as to not disadvantage the offense, as is taught by NFHS in both their education program AND case plays.
Its not a matter of whether I "like a rule" .. its a matter of how you are interpretting it and IMO, based on your last post, you know WMB is wrong.. hence your "judgement" statement.. but for whatever reason are going to try to shuffle around .. not out and out saying that this is in fact a DDB scenario BECAUSE of the hit.
Because WMB said the batter hit the ball you observe to see what happens and use judgement - DDB.. thats what a DDB is, even if you dont signal it, a DDB situation is still a DDB situation.
You kill the play or you DDB, not both.