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Originally posted by PWL
Quote:
Originally posted by Justme
Quote:
Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve
Justme,
I think he is saying that the appeal has to be unmistakable, and that a fielder can't just kick the base out of frustration, or accidentally touch it in passing.
As long as it its obvious to everyone that it is an appeal, a live ball appeal need not be verbalized, unless multiple runners are involved. Then you would need to specify which runners' action you are appealing.
The case book situations he is refering to are on page 71, 8.4.2 Situations A and B.
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Steve,
Thanks for the response.
I see the 8.2.3 ruling as an entirely different situation from 8.4.2. While they both deal with a missed base 8.2.3 is talking about 1B in particular, and provides two factors that are different from 8.4.2 A&B: (1) a force play is being made on the runner & (2) is the result of continuing action. As you know there's a big difference between over-running 1B versus the other bases, the runner is allowed to return to 1B without being tagged out unless.......
If a runner over-runs the other bases and the F has the ball he's going to be tagged out, or make it back the the base.
In 8.4.2 Situation A it clearly states that F3 kicks the bag in disguest, he's not continuing the play, that's different than what 8.2.3 states. In Situation B F6 isn't making a play either, again different from 8.2.3.
There is either no force play and/or continuing action in Situation 8.4.2 A&B. That makes it different from 8.2.3 and helps explain to me why 8.2.3 is handled differently in the case book.
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Justme, let me see if I can explain this for you. I don't think everybody got the memo on this one. First base is like force that you can run past legally. If runner misses the base and beats the ball you signal safe and wait for appeal from defense. They can either tag the base or the runner before they return to get the out call. On a force at 2B or 3B and runner beats the throw and misses the base, you signal safe. In this case the fielder can appeal by verbal and tagging the base, or they can simply go over and tag the runner with no verbal. The reason being is that you are not allowed to run past these bases. At home on a force you simply make no call until either the runner tags the base or fielder tags plate with ball. See if that helps you. Rule books sometimes have errors.
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PWL,
You are 100% correct and believe it or not that's what I was saying in my last post, in a less direct way than you. I was just pointing out that 8.2.3 & 8.4.2 were for entirely different situations.
Someone had said here that it isn't a legal appeal at 1B unless there's a 'verbal' appeal. I did not agree with that and offered 8.2.3 as my example as to why a verbal appeal wasn't required. 8.2.3 clearly states that if F3 steps on the bag it is an appeal and the runner would be out (if he hasn't returned to 1B by then), even if F3 didn't realize that the runner had missed the base, because it was a force play and a continuation of a play.
Then someone said that 8.4.2 explained it differently. I was pointing out that the differences between the two situations in my last post.
Thanks