Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
I agree. Thanks! I failed to include the matter of the ball by itself acquiring from court location, as when it bounces off an official in the frontcourt, or, fantastically but possibly, is put into the front court with backspin and comes back to a Team A player in the backcourt.
How about this:
1) the generic backcourt: A player on Team A has the ball in the frontcourt - passes, bobbles, whatever - the ball goes directly into the backcourt and a member of Team A immediately picks it up.
2) the generic non-backcourt: B1 knocks it away from A1 who is holding the ball in the frontcourt. It goes directly into the backcourt and A1 immediately picks it up.
3) the special case where A1, in the backcourt, bounces the ball off an official standing in the frontcourt, whereupon the ball returns to backcourt location and a member of Team a immediately touches it.
3) the special case I'm making such a big deal about, where where B1 in the front court taps a pass between two members of Team A who are in the frontcourt and the ball is caught in the air by a member of Team A who is in the backcourt.
But, maybe not . . . 
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Still no good. It matter not where any player is when they touch the ball. The only thing is the order of touches relative to the ball obtaining BC status.
#3 is not a violation.
A violation. A1 misses pass that goes into BC that bounces off ref and returns to FC. A2 is the first to touch it...Violation.
You're better off leaving the wording alone. It expresses the rule in about as simple a way as can be done.
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First of all, obviously #4 should have been labelled #4.
Second, "The only thing is the order of touches relative to the ball obtaining BC status." You're just standing there saying this is true because you say it is. I agree with the call. It's not clear in the language.
Third. If by #3 you mean the FIRST #3, huh? How is that not 9.9.1 Situation C?
"You're better off leaving the wording alone. It expresses the rule in about as simple a way as can be done." You know this, or you just feel it?
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Yes, I was referring to the 2nd #3 (aka #4).
The language quite clearly talks about first to touch after the ball has BC status and last to touch before teh ball has BC status. How is that difficult?
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The language of 9-1 is poor, even unto ambiguous. It says " . . . if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went into the backcourt."
Does 'he/she or a teammate last touched . . . the ball in the frontcourt' mean that the toucher has frontcourt location or that the ball has frontcourt location? It could go either way.
A ref who asked for my view on this said: "Causing the ball to be in the backcourt (see Rule 7, Sec 1, Art. 1) happens when the player on Team A secures the ball that, until this moment, was OVER the Team A backcourt but still untouched and subsequently, in the frontcourt." He is combining player location and ball location to get his result. I intuit, and agree with you, that that result isn't what the rules committee wants . . . but they have not provided a rule drafted well enough to insure that result.
The above notwithstanding, does: "(Proposed 9-1 & 9-2) If Team A is in control of a ball having frontcourt location, it shall be a violation for a member of Team A to touch the ball again after it has attained backcourt location unless an opponent's touch intervenes" cover:
1) the generic backcourt: A player on Team A has the ball in the frontcourt - passes, bobbles, whatever - the ball goes directly into the backcourt and a member of Team A immediately picks it up.
2) the generic non-backcourt: B1 knocks it away from A1 who is holding the ball in the frontcourt. It goes directly into the backcourt and A1 immediately picks it up.
3) the special case where A1, in the backcourt, bounces the ball off an official standing in the frontcourt, whereupon the ball returns to backcourt location and a member of Team a immediately touches it.
4) the special case where where B1 in the front court taps a pass between two members of Team A who are in the frontcourt and the ball is caught in the air by a member of Team A who is in the backcourt.
5) the Rustian case: A1 misses pass that goes into BC that bounces off ref and returns to FC. A2 is the first to touch it.