Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by BigUmp56
This has been a very insightfull thread! IMO- this is the type of discussion that makes these forums so educational.
As it appears there is no definitive source that gives more clarity on this issue, I will tell you what I think I will now do if this ever happens to me, based on the responses you've all given.
1) Once a batter steps into the dugout, I have an out. I'll buy in to the Roder interpretation that the batter can be called out for desertion on a batted ball before touching first base.
2) Although I have the batter out, I'm holding off making that call until all continuing action has relaxed, keeping the force intact.
3) If challenged, I'd just tell the offensive manager that I didn't see exactly when his batter entered the dugout, and in my judgement, it was after the DP was recorded.
Tim.
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And I have to disagree. I find this type of thread to be mental masturbation at best and something that hurts novice umpires more than helps at worst.
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Then I'll disagree with YOU!
Although the initial scenario has a Third World Play flavor to it ... the fact remains, IT *DID* HAPPEN!
The value of this thread, if nothing else, has taught "novice umpires" a few things they may have not known before.
1. Abandonment does not apply to runners who have not reached 1st. (I don't think a lot of "novice umpires" understand that. If they followed this thread, they would now know.)
2. There is a thing called "desertion" that applies to a BR. The authoritative opinion on desertion is that the BR is *out* once he enters the dugout. (I don't consider myself a "novice umpire" and I wasn't aware of that authoritative opinion. Now I know. Prior to this thread I would have probably allowed the BR to rectify his mistake if it was done in a timely manner.)
3. Another thing to be learned in this thread by a "novice umpire" is that even the most knowledgeable and experienced umpires sometimes have difficulty reaching a consensus on certain basic issues. So, he (the "novice umpire") shouldn't feel like there is always an easy answer for everything.
4. Finally, it has to be asked; At what level of play would some of these items being discussed ever be an issue; high or low level? Clearly, the answer is LOW level. And what kind of umpires would likely be calling these low level games? ... NOVICE UMPIRES!
Higher level umpires often denigrate these type of discussions either out of naivete or the arrogance that such things could "never happen in one of my games" - so they scoff at the entire discussion - as Rich is.
And then another Doug Eddings is born.
I truly believe that valuable things can often be gleaned from seemingly unlikely and Third World Plays.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN