Quote:
Originally posted by dddunn3d
Here's a play that happened last night during my son's game(league championship, which his team won 11-2, but I digress):
R1,R2, no outs. B1 hits a Texas-leaguer to shallow LF. F6 races back, stretches out, and gloves the ball but drops it as he falls to the ground. U3 calls "safe, no catch," but not very demonstrative. No IFF called because of the extraordinary effort to even get to the ball.
Runners hold thinking it was caught. (F6 is shielding the runner's view of the ball on the ground.) BR actually trots back to his dug-out(1B side) thinking he's out. F6 gets up, throws to F5, starting the triple play.
Here's my question:
If the BR entered the dug-out before the above action, being called out for abandonment, does that remove the forces at 2B and 3B? I believe it does.
However, here's the wrinkle in this sitch:
Is the removal of the force-outs considered a timing play? I.E., if the BR reaches his dug-out after R2 is forced at 3B, but before R1 is forced at 2B, does F4 now have to tag R1?
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This is an interesting one.
I have always been of the opinion that the rule allowing outs to be recorded for abandonment ONLY applied to runners who have reached first.
OBR 7.08(a)(2) Any runner is out when, after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base.
Under that same rule there is the well known APPROVED RULING that covers the special instance when the BR enters the dugout after an uncaught third strike. I suspect the reason they had to have that APPROVED RULING is because the rule, itself, does not specifically cover abandonment issues with regards to a BR who has not reached first.
Unless there is some special interpretation that I'm too lazy to look for at this moment, it's not even clear that a BR is out simply by virtue that he enters the dugout on a fair batted ball before advancing to and touching first.
For many years, a runner who "scored", yet missed the plate, was allowed to enter the dugout, realize his mistake, emerge from the dugout and retouch the plate. Any subsequent appeal that he missed the plate would be denied.
That is no longer the case, however. Runners who "score", yet miss the plate, can no longer correct their baserunning error once they've entered the dugout.
It only seems logical that a BR who enters the dugout as in your example should be out; but, unless there is some interpretation saying so (and there probably is), I don't think it's easy to support from the black & white of the rulebook.
Assuming that a batter *can* enter the dugout on his way to first, that would mean the forces *were* in tact.
If you think about it - it seems more fair (especially to the defense) that a BR *not* be able to remove force plays by entering his dugout. Such a BR could be put out at the leisure of the defense once other outs (force outs!) have been recorded - as in your example.
I'm not sure of the ruling, quite frankly, and I'd have to do a little research - that's why it's interesting.
I found this
interesting article by Rick Roder, but it still doesn't address a BR who has neither struck out nor reached first when he enters the dugout.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
[Edited by David Emerling on Nov 1st, 2005 at 10:44 AM]