Thu Aug 11, 2005, 01:33pm
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Official Forum Member
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 508
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Yo
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Originally posted by Ref in PA
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Originally posted by assignmentmaker
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Originally posted by Mark Dexter
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Originally posted by assignmentmaker
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Originally posted by refnrev
Back in the Saddle, I don't understand why you don't think you CAN have a delayed whistle on this. It would be the same as whacking a coach or player who mouthed off at you before a scoring opportunity by the other team after the made basket, would it not?
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You betcha. Message sent. Justice served.
Keep in mind that, as rule based systems go, the Federation rules are not very well written. There are plenty of inherently undecidable propositions created by the rules.
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No, no, no.
There is a specific rule reference allowing a delayed whistle in the case of an unsportsmanlike conduct technical on team B (10.4.1 E). Note that the rule reference is from 10-4 - technical fouls.
You may be able to get away with a delayed whistle on this violation. However, there is NO rule support whatsoever for it. In addition, it could bite you in the a** if anything happens in the intervening period between the player stepping OOB and you blowing the whistle.
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Mark: a good example of this particular discretion is when A1 is on a breakaway and B1 fouls A2 before A1 has picked the ball up for the layup/dunk. This is not covered by the rule exception designed to thwart this kind of behavior . . . but, unless the foul is outrageous, a T (unsportsmanlike conduct - you can always call that, yuh know!) or an intentional personal is overkill. Just delay the whistle slightly . . .
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Overkill? If you call the foul in this case on a delayed whistle you have given the offense two points for the lay in and now the ball back. The intentional foul call immediately or the tech call would negate the layup and give two free throws instead with team A getting the ball back. Your delayed whistle is actually more of a punishment to team B than actually calling an intentional foul on the play when it happened because the two points are already scored (if you go with a common foul away from the ball). If you have an intentional foul away from the play before the shooting motion in effort to prevent an easy layup, call the intentional foul. Delaying could get you into a mess. What is A2 retaliates against B1 because he did not hear a whistle? What if A1 gets fouled somehow by someone else - now you have two fouls, one against the shooter and one away from the ball. I do not advocate a delayed whistle in this case.
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Nicely reasoned. Thanks.
I agree my use of 'overkill' was just wrong. As you point out, my penalty is more Draconian - good, that's the point -don't be being a moron by trying something you probably know is outside the spirit - if not the rules. I still generally recommend what I recommended. Not is the lag time is 4 seconds fer Chrissake. Then you're gonna hafta call the foul away from the ball. But when the lag is slight, well - I thought the guy had picked the ball up when the foul happened . . .
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