Quote:
Originally posted by kentref
ljudge, great question - I see why you're wondering if the Fed wants this type of situation to be an exception to the all but one. Let me add this:
When the Fed deleted the text ("... but does not make any contact with an opponent or touch the ball and does not influence the play,...") in 9.6 comment (part b), what they essentially did was eliminate a lot of the difference between part b and part c of the 9.6 comment. Given their original language they may have wanted to make an exception to the all but one principle in part b, but when they deleted that text, I'm not seeing where part b is now not that much different than part c.
Part b indicates that enforcement is from the basic spot. Even though this is how the Fed phrased it, I'm of the opinion that unless they specifically state that (part b) is to be an "exception" to the all but one principle, then I'm going to enforce it using the all but one. In your caseplay example, A would then be penalized from the spot of the foul, a foul by A behind the basic spot. And yes, it would potentially be a huge penalty. If this is truly how the Fed wants it enforced, then they are putting IP (even if the entering substitute doesn't materially affect the play) in the same boat with safety-related fouls like clipping or blocking below the waist that are clearly enforced using the all but one.
I plan to ask the Nebraska association about their take on this. I'm doing some games in Iowa this year and will be interested to see what MJT finds out from them.
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Ok, here is what I found out. This is definitely a change from last year.
I mentioned to our state FB rule supervisor what we all have been discussing. He said when they say basic spot enforcement, they mean normal all-but-one.
As I stated earlier, I cannot think of anytime that if the offense fouls behind the basic spot, we do not use the all-but-one. According to him this is NOT an exception to that.
The rule was put in to take the judgment out of the officials hands as to whether it is IS or IP. Thus, as 9-6-4-a states it is IP when a player, replaced player, or substitute comes enters during a down. Thus the case book 9-6-b and 9-6-c saying basic spot and all-but-one are not different. This was a great catch by ljudge, but apparently it is not specifying that in (b) we are to enforce from the BS, but not take the all-but-one into account when A fouls behind the BS.
Two areas that this will come into play as we have discussed are:
1. if a player thinking he is the 11th player runs off the field, and then the coach tells him to get back on the field so he runs back on after the ball is snapped IP from BS, so if by the offense we must toss the flag to the SPOT HE RETURNED cuz if by the offense that would be the spot of penalty enforcement if it was by A and behind the BS.
2. As we have stated, the ball is snapped at the 5 and A35 is running a sweep to the right and from the sideline at the 50 an A player sprint onto the field cuz they were short one player. Now we TECHNICALLY have an IP foul, from the 50, and when enforced by the all-but-one, we would enforce 15 yards from the 50 and A would be backed up to their own 35 yard line, so a 60 yard penalty.
We all know, and he even said that is not the intent of the rule, but it one thing we are stuck with for a year as kind of a catch 22 with the new wording of the rule. Now I stated earlier, I will be instructing the guys on my crew to handle #1 properly, as this would not be a massive penalty, but in #2 we did not see him on the field until the ball was dead, unless he got pretty close or got involved in the play, and then at worst we would enforce from the 25 (end of team box) if down by the goal and if it is not down by the goal, then we will get the flag on the spot.
So the SD and IA supervisors stated, we COULD have the huge penalty, but use some common sense on when and where you see them.
I am pretty sure we will have a change to handle this scenario next year. My bet is an IP foul in which no contact with the ball, an opponent, or direct influence in the play will be enforced from the PS, and if contact, then all-but-one. I guess well see.