Quote:
Originally posted by regas14
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by regas14
(1)If everyone in the gym knows they are going to purposely (notice the use of the word purposely instead of intentionally) foul then the only differentiation between an intential foul and a non-intentional foul is a token swipe at the ball?
(2)I think we would all recognize a foul made with the primary intent to hurt/punish the opposing player as an intentional foul.
(3)We all would also recognize a run-of-the-mill foul as being just a standard foul. In between is a lot of gray area for me.
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Yeah, I think that you don't have a clue what an intentional foul really is. And you're thinking waaaaaay too much for someone who has never actually officiated a game in their life.The best way to find out about something is to usually to read the appropriate rule. In this case, that would be FED R4-19-3. Note the part of R4-19-3 that says the act may or may NOT be premeditated and that it ISN'T based the severity of the contact. You very obviously do NOT know the different foul definitions.
I had to edit and go back and comment on the points above because they are so badly wrong.
(1)We punish the act as per the definition of an intentional foul. What everyone in the gym thinks or "knows" isn't relevant to the call.
(2)Trying to hurt/punish an opponent is a FLAGRANT foul. Completely different animal, and defined as such in the rules.
(3)A run of the mill foul can STILL be an intentional foul, depending on how and when it is committed.
Lah me!
[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 28th, 2005 at 06:11 PM]
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That was a little harsh. I understand and appreciate your points. I have made an initial read through the rules, but I also know what I see from officials at all levels of basketball. From 15 years of participating in and watching basketball I would say that at least 95% of officials do not make an intentional foul call according to the letter of the law. My comment was looking for guidance on how the experts on this board distinguish which fouls to call intentional at that stage of the game and which to simply call as a run-of-the-mill foul because I think we all know that there are fouls that fit the definition of intentional which are not called that way in this situation. Take the opportunity to offer some guidance not a belittling lecture
Based on what you're telling me in this post, you would call an intentional foul anytime a foul is committed at the end of the game by the trailing team if their intent is to commit a foul to stop the clock. In all my years around basketball I have never seen an official take that stance in reality.
Is this the way most of the officials around you call these or are you one of a few hardliners?
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Regas-- Jurassic Referee is our resident curmudgeon. He's also an assignor, and as his name implies, our most experienced official, except for Padgett, who was reffing basketball before Naismith was out of diapers.
Jurassic reacted to what he read in your comments, which looked like criticism of referees in general, based on little or no experience as a ref. If that wasn't what you intended -- and it sounds like it wasn't -- then he'll apologize.
We all get a little testy this time of year since from March through June there are an increased number of fans who come here trying to dump on referees in the form of innocent questions. You probably are not one of those, but it looked for a few posts as though you were. We will try to see you more as a new ref and not as a troll, and we'd ask you to word your questions carefully so that Jurassic doesn't go off again.
We don't like trolls at all, but we love new refs. It's always a lot of fun to see how far we can lead them into seriously discussing whether to wear a belt, what brand of shoe is best, and which TV announcer is the all-time worst (you have to choose between Billy Packer and Bill Walton each of whom gets at least a couple of plaques a year for Most Ridiculous Comment, and each of whom has won a couple of Idiot of the Year trophies). Welcome to the board!