Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Any team can call timeout when the ball is dead.
The ball is dead from the moment it passes through the net until the throwin begins. The throwin begins when the throw has the ball in his hands and is in a position to make a legal throw (or has had enough time to do so but is deliberately delaying). This coincides with the start of the 5 second count.
Said another way, the team may call the timeout anytime between the shot and the start of the 5 second count.
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The rule says at the disposal 6-1-2.
There is nothing in the rules about being in position to make a throw-in. CB 6.1.2.B and comment.
Once the throwing team has the ball it is too late.
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But it's not at their disposal until they have it (or could have had it) in a position to make a throwin. That's the meaning of at the disposal.
Either team can call the timeout until the ball becomes live. When does it become live? When the throwin starts (at the disposoal). When does the 5 second count start? When the throwin starts. Do you start the count the moment the player picks up the ball?
To illustrate that point...
Consider a ball that, after it drops through the net, hits a player in the head and it rolls to the FT line (or even midcourt) where A3 picks it up. A3 walks directly but not quickly to the endline to perform the throwin. Are you suggesting it is too late for team B to have a timeout the moment A3 picks up the ball (20-30' from the endline)? If so, you have also decided the ball is live (that's the only way B can no longer call a timeout). Are you counting 5 seconds? If the ball is live for the throwin, you should be since the only way for the ball to become live is for the throwin to have begun. If you are counting, A3 will only have about 1-2 seconds left by the time he gets OOB.
Do you really think that is what is intended or written?
Common sense and the rules both suggest that your position can't be correct.
The whole purpose behind the "at the disposal" is to prevent a team from deliberately letting the ball roll around at their feet in order to delay (let the clock run out, set up a play, rest, etc.) after a made basket when they could easily pick it up and make the throwin.
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The rule is clear, you choose to use an extreme example.
Under normal play when the throwing team has the ball it is too late for the scoring team to call a TO. I think most officials would agree that this is their cut off point.
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The rule is indeed clear. My example was extreme in order to demonstrate that very point. It is inconsistent to say that the moment the ball is picked up, it is too late but not yet begin the throwin count. The point at which it is too late for the new defensive team to call timeout is precisely the same time that the throwin count begins. I don't think anyone is advocating starting the count the moment the ball is picked up. Unless a team is delibertate delaying, you do not ever start the throwin count before they have the ball OOB in a position to make the throwin.
To do otherwide is to completely miscontrue the purpose, meaning, spirint, and intent of "at the disposal". It is only there to allow the official to start the count if the official feels the team is deliberately delaying or when the official must start the throwin without at thrower as after a timeout when the team refuses to break the huddle in time.
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The count starts when the ball is at the disposal, under normal play that is when the ball comes out of the net and the throwing team controls the ball.
Again this is under normal conditions, I'm not waiting until they get OOBs to start this count.
Check out CB 4.43.3.
[Edited by blindzebra on Jun 4th, 2005 at 07:17 PM]