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Old Wed Jun 01, 2005, 07:24pm
Dave Hensley Dave Hensley is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 768
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bfair
Quote:


Frankly, Dave, most of the senior umpires that I know and respect from my past times at the boards who commented on this seemed to agree that they thought it would not be a balk including Bob, Garth, JJ, and David. (Let's face it....how often have you seen a ruling go against Bob?....lol).
About as often as one has gone against me.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bfair
Quote:

Still, I think my example shown of a pitcher doing something totally within the pitching directives and where he has obvious intent to deceive is highly analagous to the situation we've been discussing here.

In my analogy, the runner is expected to know the rule that the pitcher need be on or astride the rubber without the ball.
I think you said "need" when you meant "cannot."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bfair
Quote:

In the discussed situation, the runner should also know that once the pivot foot rises from the set position a legal pitch cannot occur. So, when the pitcher is not on or astride the rubber, AND when the pitcher's pivot rises from the set position----THERE IS NO DECEPTION OUTSIDE OF THE RULES---even if there is intent to try to deceive.
You continue to overlook the most salient statement in Evans' response: "Deception is acceptable as
long as it is mechanically legal." In the play that was the subject of this thread, the high, slow, deliberate raising of the leg - judged to be employed in order to trick the runner into believing a pitching motion has begun - constitutes an illegal disengagement of the rubber. In one of my very first posts in this thread, I noted that a disengagement must be completed with some "normalcy," and Mr. Evans response confirmed that understanding. Haven't you ever had a jump-spin-no-throw balk argued by the coach who pleaded "but he stepped off!!" If the disengagement was so close to a jump spin move that it was NOT a clearly discernible disengagement, then it's NOT a disengagement, it's a jump-spin. Balk it, unless you're one of those ball/strike fair/foul out/safe umpires who doesn't have the balls to make the controversial calls.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bfair
Quote:

So, let's add one for Evans to rule on.............
After a foul ball F3 keeps the ball while F1 takes the rubber and U1 declares play. As R1 steps off the 1B he is tagged by F3............
Is this a balk, or is this nothing since the ball was never legally put in play? Certainly there is INTENT to deceive the runner.........

(snip the redundant classic bfair drivel)
This may be a stretch, but I'm pretty sure Jim Evans would agree that you cannot balk with a dead ball. I do, however, remember the noted Internet umpire guru Jim Porter arguing that a balk should be called in your described situation. Perhaps you could look him up and continue this fascinating hypothetical with him.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bfair
Quote:

Still, Dave.......I'll accept Evans' ruling.
I'll chalk it up along Rick Roder's one time statement that he'd give credit to a runner for touching a missed base after that runner was retired............
Remember that one ?????????????

Even the authorities make poor decisions at times........
Wow, that's one hell of an "acceptance." The truth is, you're not "accepting" the Evans ruling. You're arguing with it, challenging it, ridiculing it, and LOL'ing all over the place with it. And all that tells me is, you simply don't get it.