Now I know why baseball rules are so !#@%$ed up. Because baseball umpires can't follow simple logic and those are the same guys that wrote the rules.
Bob, that is the worst attempt at a logical arguement I seen in a while. We are talking about a step off from the set position, not the windup. No one steps back with the non pivot foot from the stretch. A step back with the non pivot foot in the windup is a motion associated with a pitch and in fact commits the pitcher to pitch, as I am sure you know.
Trying to compare that step back with the non pivot foot in the windup to a disengagement step back with the pivot foot in the set position are apples and oranges. It is a lousy attempt at a analogy and a worse attempt at a logical arguement.
How about one of you guys trying to logically argue the points that have been brought up.
1)The rule says the pitcher must
STEP BACKWARD OFF the plate. Why are you allowing any motion but what is written in the rule?
No one has answered that yet. Don't tell me that lifting his leg up to his chest is a step backward. There are two motions indicated in the rule, backwards and off. Why are you allowing one motion to occur with out enforcing the other. Backwards is even written first in the rule and yet you are going to allow a pitcher to lift his leg to the sky, rationalizing this by saying that he will eventually step back.
2)The rule says the pitcher may not make a motion associated with his pitch while disengaged from the rubber. There is only one time when a right handed pitcher brings a knee up to his waist or chest when on the mound. That is when he is making a motion to pitch (or possibly step and throw to third, but that is not the case in this situation). At no other time does that ever normally happen. When a leg comes up that high, it's to pitch. To do it with the other leg is making that exact same
MOTION as you would to pitch. The rule says making a
MOTION associated with a pitch is against the rule. It is that motion that is being simulated for only one purpose, to deceive the runner. The rule doesn't specify whether the motion is being done with the right body part or not. It only says motion because that is all that is needed to be deceptive. Which leads us to...
3)The balk rules clearly give the umpire the right to judge intent. There is no legitimate reason to raise you leg up that high when disengaging, except to try and fool the runner. No legitimate reason that anyone so far in this thread has come up with. That is because the intent of such a move is clear, it is an intent to deceive.
The rule says backward off and lifting the leg to the sky is not a step backward. Lifting the leg up to the chest is only ever associated with a pitch for a right handed pitcher. The intent of such a move has one purpose only, that is to deceive the runner.
And no good arguements that address the actual points...
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Originally posted by bob jenkins
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Originally posted by Dave Hensley
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Originally posted by DG
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But when pitching from the windup everybody takes a step, usually backwards, while raising their hands. Nobody pitches from the set by picking up their pivot foot first.
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But when pitching from the windup nobody takes a step backwards WITH THEIR PIVOT FOOT, either, unless they are employing the trick move that should be balked. The two situations are analogous, despite your argument that they are fundamentally different. If you agree that the fake move from windup should be balked, then you should agree that the fake move from set should also be balked. If you believe that the fake move from set is OK, a legal disengagement, then you should believe that the fake move from windup is also OK, a legal disengagement.
You cannot logically reconcile balking one move and not balking the other.
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Sure I can -- it's not the step in either case that makes it a balk. It's the raising of the arms that makes it a balk.
If you follow Kalix's "logic" then there's no difference betwen a (normal) step-off and a (normal) step back with the non-pivot foot -- those are both MOTIONs associated with the pitch -- so even the normal step back should be a balk.
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