Quote:
Originally posted by Just Curious
The rules are pretty clear as to when substitutes become player and when a players becomes bench-personnel. But when do bench-personnel become substitutes? A. When the coach sends them to the scoring table to check in. Or after they have reported to the scoring table and the table recognizes them (As a substitute).
Chuck
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You've got your wires crossed Chuck. Any player who is not in the game is a substitute. All substitutes are bench personnel. He/she doesn't have to go to the table to become a substitute. Read the definition, NF 4-34, that mick posted above, because he's right on target.
Quote:
Originally posted by Just Curious
Sorry Mark... Not true. Fed. ball rules clearly state, in terms of Technical Fouls anyway, that a T assessed to bench-personnel are indirect to the coach. T's assessed to sub's are not. So there is a difference.
Chuck
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Sorry Chuck but that's not correct. You're reading too much into the "failure to report or not being beckoned rule." This is the only time a T on a sub is not an indirect for the coach. Any other time a sub gets a T, it's an indirect on the coach. Read my comments below.
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I guess the reasoning for the difference in the direct and indirect is that there is expectation of control by a coach over someone who is sitting on the bench, but there is not that degree of expectation of control over someone who is kneeling at the table and comes in before being beckoned. As I said, I "guess" that's the reason.
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Mark,
Pretty good figgerin', I think.
mick
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Here's the only problem with that theory.
When a player fouls out, you inform the coach, then the player. Why? So that he/she becomes bench personel and the coach is responsible for them. In this case, the kid is usually still on the floor, certainly much farther away in most cases than a sub, sitting at the table.
If he's sitting at the table during a live ball, waiting to come in, he's still bench personnel. If he curses an official and gets a T, it's still an indirect on the coach. An exception to the technical foul rule keeps the coach from being penalized if a sub enters the game without reporting or being beckoned. I also don't know why this exception exists. But for the sake of any other T, he is still a sub and, therefore, still bench personnel until he becomes a player. Result, indirect on the coach.
Quote:
Originally posted by Lotto
So Article 5 covers a situation that can't happen---the player isn't a substitute without reporting, so a substitute can't enter the court without reporting.
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But that's just under NCAA. A player doesn't have to report to become a substitute under NF rules. Read NF 3-3-1
A substitute who desires to enter shall report to the scorers, giving his/her number and the number of the player who is being replaced.
Note that he is a substitute, PRIOR to reporting. He doesn't become a substitue AFTER he reports.