Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by icallfouls
Beleive me, I can see where everyone is coming from on this, but for this situation when there were no apparent other game management techniques used, the punishment does not fit the crime. Heck yes, send a message, but don't send the wrong message either, that the crew expended all reasonable options before the T, not in this case.
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Jim --
I'm not sure you see the picture clearly of the sitch. It appears to me as though
player A stepped across the lane
player B stepped across the lane
then player A stepped back again
player B stepped back again
here, I suspect, ref said, "Hey, guys, enough."
but they both stepped across again
ref then says, "Next spot is it."
player A then stepped across again
Now ref bounces ball, and shooter misses.
then they start stepping back and forth again!
It appears to me that this all happened in one free throw, not over several free throw sets over several minutes.
At what point would you have issued a warning? When would you stop the free throw sequence to track down the captain? Would it make the game better to stop everything and ask the coach to talk to his player? Which coach? When all this action happens so quickly one thing on top of the other, does it make sense to stop everything to get the coach involved? Or were you thinking they had done this several times during several free throw sets? How is the ref forfeiting control to tell the players to stop it and then issuing a T when they don't stop? It seems to me that it's taking control, not giving it up. I don't understand your point of view.
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Rainmaker,
Read my example about the same play in the state championship final, are you going to make this call? You cannot convince me that this is the right call for any championship game. If there are two perpetrators, then why didn't both get whacked for this as others have suggested here? Team A was un"fair"ly penalized in this situation and the referees wound up having a direct impact on the game.
I believe that these officials were having a great game and this call was not the right call at the right time, or place.
Now, if this is my game. Player A moves to their spot of preference, but Player B follows. I say "hold your spots" and bounce the ball to the FT shooter and I back out. If A starts to move, A is violating. It doesn't seem too hard to take care of to me. Player A was being difficult, but had come to a set position as Player B was following. Once B got positioned, A decided to move again. Put the ball into play, be more efficient with dead ball situations is my suggestion to stop the insanity.
There are other tools we can use for this situation and these needed to be explored first.
I want to reference 8-1-4f. I would guess that in this game since it was close, that all lane spaces were filled. Thus moving to an occupied space is not possible in this situation. Further, if we examine Rule 8-1, you can call the violation or double violation. Player A's delaying tactic was not warned in this game. I liken this tactic to a huddle in the key which prevents FT administration (thus an official warning would be called first).
Also, reference NCAA manual 8-1-2, "After allowing reasonable time for players to take their positions, the official shall put the ball in play ..."
9-1-2f will also help to explain my position. Specifically, delay the free thrower.
This has been a great discussion, but no one here has convinced me that they would call a T or support this call in a championship game. If they would, I don't think that they are being honest.
[Edited by icallfouls on May 12th, 2005 at 12:17 PM]