Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
1) You CANNOT have a live ball appeal during a dead ball period.
2) This ball is no longer live, as we have 3 outs.
3) You can't have a dead ball appeal in this sitch to get an advantageous 4th out, as the 4th out in question here doesn't fall into any of the categories mentioned in that rule.
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While true, the issue is moot, since this is not an appeal play. The BR did not miss 1st base; the BR was "put out" (assuming you recognize the out) before achieving 1st base.
Besides, if a player wants to use the valid live ball appeal mechanics to indicate a dead ball appeal, he certainly can. Doesn't need to, but he can.
Appeals have no place in this discussion. Because, as you say,
Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
4) Those of you saying that a force play (or a play on the batter at 1st base) is LIKE an appeal play are really stretching things.
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In fact, this is not a stretch. It is fiction.
This is purely an umpiring decision, not an appeal. Do you recognize the 4th out for the purposes of nullifying the run, or not?
Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
Similar play (nearly identical except for the speed and motivation of the players): R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd. D3K, R1 a speedster comes home and barely scores. R2, less reactive is then thrown out at 3rd as BR is 3 steps from 1st. BR sees the out and goes to the dugout instead of 1st (why would he go to 1st, there are 3 outs). F5 then fires to 1st as F3 touches 1st.
Do you nullify the run here?
You shouldn't - the rules don't justify it. And they don't justify it in the original situation.
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Just a side note: IF you were going to recognize an out on BR in this situation, note that she was already "out" before the throw... "goes to the dugout instead of 1st..."
Henry Pollard is not just some guy named Henry. Nonetheless, before I would use his interp on this in a game, I would need something in writing (like his interp on calling the runner OUT for malicious USC, which is not in the rules, but is in a HP-authored case play).