Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Snake~eyes,
By your logic, both A1 and B1 would have to be called for OOB, because A1 is still OOB throwing in. If you call A1 for OOB because B1 contacts the ball on the "fake" in-bounds, then both are touching, therefore it would be OOB on both players.
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No.
Read 7-1-1 and 2, again.
This play is not a T, because it does not fit the spirit or intent of the rule.
It can not be OOB on both players, because it does not fit the criteria for causing the ball to go out of bounds, 7-1-2 and 7-3-1.
If the ball was not released by A1, or dislodged by B1 the throw-in has not ended, so it can not be OOB on A1.
The common sense judgment would be held ball. The fact that B1's hand stayed on the ball when A1 pulled the ball back, is close enough for me to call this a held ball. The play has elements of both 4-25-1 and 2, even though it does not exactly falling under either.
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I appreciate your careful analysis and reference to the less-than-perfect-fit rules.
I think the 'warning for reaching through' is the most balanced unperfect fit. Do no harm. Or do as little as possible. The rule concerning the plane doesn't dare say which comes first, the chicken or the egg, at that infinitesimal limit when the ball and hand are passing from state A to state B. After all, at the electron level, they are not touching, they are merely in serious proximity to each other.
So as the hand crosses the plane, a simple warning could do the job - and no matter whether or not the ball dislodges and strikes the thrower-inner, etc.
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There is no provision in the rules to warn in this situation, breaking the plane and contacting the ball is a T, so that won't work either.
Also the note after 9-2-11 calls the first part of this play legally touching. It makes no sense to penalize B when they are legally touching a ball being pulled back into a restricted area.
Keep in mind that this was a bad play by A1 and good defense by B1. To warn B in that situation seems unfair. A1 carelessness caused the situation, thus going to the arrow rewards good defense.