Sat Feb 12, 2005, 04:00pm
|
|
Official Forum Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
|
|
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
This has been discussed several times and there is a major disagreement.
By rule it is an official's error and the game is over.
Most feel that the fair thing is to envoke 2-3 and give team A a do-over.
MTD will chime in, incorrectly, that it is a timer's error.
|
I'm not sure I understand how this is NOT a timing error.
Let's forget all the complicating stuff. What if the T decides to chop in time as he bounces the ball to A1 for the throw-in and the horn goes off to end the game as A1 catches the ball for the throw-in.
Game over? You gonna run into the locker run and shake hands, congratulating each other on another great job?
|
5-9-1
The clock shall be started when the official signals time in.
The clock was started when the official signaled time in, so it IS NOT a timer's error, but an official's error which is covered under 5.10.1.C.
By rule the game is over when the horn went off, unless they blew the whistle for the foul, in this case, BEFORE the horn.
This will be where MTD will say that 5-9-2 thru 4 are the governing rules, when in FACT, they are there to tell the official when to signal.
We have argued this case 3 other times over 2 different forums and I'm not going to do it again.
5-9-1 makes it an official's error.
5.10.1.C says an official's error is not correctable.
2-3 is the only way out even though it is covered.
|
Let me try again:
What if the T decides to chop in time as he bounces the ball to A1 for the throw-in and the horn goes off to end the game as A1 catches the ball for the throw-in.
You are R. What do you do? Don't quote me any rules, let's pretend I'm Coach A and you just cost me a playoff spot. You going to explain to me on the court why the game is over? Or you gonna wait for me to come banging on the locker room door?
|
What part of I'm not arguing this again did you NOT get?
|
The part where you won't give a straight answer.
Quote:
Read my first post, and last one too, see that little 2-3 do-over.
|
I don't have the patience to wade through all those 5.somethings and 2-other things.
You're using 2.3 to do what, exactly? That's all I would like to know.
If it's too much trouble then we'll leave it at that. :shrug:
|
Just for you Dan.
This case has a new wrinkle, the foul. We also do not know if the horn sounded BEFORE the foul or AFTER.
5-9-1 tells us when the timer starts the clock, so by RULE, the timer started the clock correctly.
5-9-4 tells us that the OFFICIAL signaled the clock to start incorrectly, making this an OFFICIAL'S error.
5.10.1.C tells us that an official's error IS NOT CORRECTABLE, so by rule there is no way to fix this mistake.
Technically since 5.10.1.C deals with a count and not an erroneous chop, 2-3 could be envoked.
What we choose to do with 2-3 is another debate. In the first two arguments time expired before team A got the inbound pass and there was no foul. All that could be done in that case would be a do-over, time back to what it was before the throw-in and team A's ball with endline privleges.
In this case, horn before foul do-over.
Horn after foul, shoot the free throws, and I'm leaning toward putting the time back on the clock.
|
Look, I tried to uncomplicate this with a simple play. You continue to keep it complicated. So let's try 1 more time. No foul. No running the endline. A simple throw-in by A1 on his endline with seconds left in the game. And the T decides to chop in time as he bounces the ball to A1 for the throw-in and the horn goes off to end the game as A1 catches the ball for the throw-in. We have an official's error which you claim cannot be corrected. So by rule, you claim, the game's over.
You are R. What do you do? Don't quote me any rules, let's pretend I'm Coach A and you just cost me a playoff spot. You going to explain to me on the court why the game is over? Or you gonna wait for me to come banging on the locker room door?
|