Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
If there is physical contact, it HAS to be an intentional personal foul. That's what the rule says. Rule 9-2-12PENALTY4 is very explicit. If you try to get by with just calling a warning, and it then costs a team the game, how are you gonna explain that little mis-application of the rule?
Follow the rules, guys, and don't try to make up your own. Don't over-think these plays. There is nothing in the rulebook that would let you call anything but an intentional personal foul in this case.
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You always have the option of calling the violation/warning.
Before a defender can possibly touch the thrower on the OOB side of the line or touch/dislodge the ball on the OOB side of the line, that defender must first cross the line.
Since the ball is dead when a violation occurs, the ball is dead at the moment the defenders hand crosses the line (if you choose to call it).
All that said, I think this arguement doesn't preclude the T or the intential foul...just gives us the option.
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You're kidding, right? Why would the FED bother to put 9-2-12PENALTY4 in the rule book then?
That's completely wrong, Camron.
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Why is it in the book? So you have an option to penalize more severly if the situation merits it!
We have several options given in the rules.
Consider 10-3-7 : Delay the game by acts such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.
This, when after a made basket, overlaps with the delay of game warning rules. You have a choice depending on the severity.
B1 run over A1 at the same time as B1 knocks the ball OOB. You could call a foul or a violation. You get to choose. Of course, the rules say call the first one that happens, but in practice, we call the one that fits the situation best.
B1 reaches well through the line and in the same motion, slaps the ball away from the thrower (or makes substantial contact with the thrower)...a definite T (Intentional foul)...but in doing so, you've implicity chosen to ignore a violation that occured first.
B1 reaches slightly through the line and the thrower moves such that there is a slight brush on the ball (or with the thrower), ... the violation is certainly more fitting.
As I said before, you have the option of either one so that you don't have to choose between nothing and a T. If the contact is minor and is not due to a deliberate attempt to make contact with the player or ball, I think the warning can be a good choice.