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What I said was that the position of the shoulders is not illegal. Turning the shoulders is illegal. The word turn is used as a verb and requires physical turning motion, not just positioning.
If the pitcher is bent over for signs and in standing up his shoulder moves, then that in itself is not illegal. As mentioned, in many instances, a subtle repositioning of the shoulder during the stretch is usually not considered a fake and is not penalized. Any sharp (quick, sudden) turning motion of the shoulder during the stretch should be penalized.
Any shoulder turning motion before the stretch or after coming set should be penalized.
As you get into the more subtle areas, your judgment becomes the determination. When in doubt, consider deception, is the pitcher deceiving the runner?
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