[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Our older son was competing in the first H.S. swim meet of his career and while I was watching the meet before he was to swim, I thought of a play that will show that NFHS R5-S9-A4 takes precedence over R5-S9-A1.

B1 is Team B’s best three-point field goal shooter, but he is not one of the five best defensive players on Team B. Team B scores a field goal to cut Team A’s lead to one point. Team A inbounds the ball and B2 immediately commits a common foul against A1. Team A is in the double bonus. A1’s first free throw attempt is successful. B6, a much better defensive player than B1, replaces B1 after A1’s first free throw attempt. Coach B has B1 remain at the Scorer’s/Timer’s Table. Coach B wants B1 to replace B6 at the first opportunity to re-enter the game. A2 commits a free throw violation during A1’s second free throw attempt. Team B is awarded a designated throw-in on the end line in its backcourt because of A2 free throw violation. B2 will attempt the throw-in for Team B. Team A has 7’-00” tall A3 guard B2. The Trail official places the ball at B2’s disposal and keeps one arm raised with an open hand to signify that the clock shall remain stopped. B2 releases the ball in an attempt to pass the ball over A3. A3 blocks B2’s pass back against the wall behind B2. The ball goes from A3’s hands to the wall so quickly that the Trail official cannot do anything but to sound his whistle to stop play because of the out-of-bounds violation by A3; the Trail’s raised hand is never lowered.

From this point, the play has four different options. The game clock’s visible display can be shown in either (1) whole seconds (GC-1), or (2) tenths of a second (GC-2). The game clock controller unit has a LCD that shows the Timer how much time is on the game clock; the LCD shows the time in tenths of a second no matter which of the two types of visible displays are used.

When the game clock was stopped for B2’s common foul, the game clock with the visible display in whole seconds shows 11 seconds, and the game clock with the visible display in tenths of a second shows 11.9 seconds. The LCD display on both controllers show 00:11.9 second. We now have the four plays below:


After the Trail sounds his whistle:

Play A-1: The visible display of GC-1 shows 11 seconds and the LCD shows 11.9 seconds.

Play A-2: The visible display of GC-2 shows 11.9 seconds and the LCD shows 11.9 seconds.

Play B-1: The visible display of GC-1 shows 11 seconds and the LCD shows 11.1 seconds.

Play B-2: The visible display of GC-2 shows 11.1 seconds and the LCD shows 11.1 seconds.

Can B1 re-enter the game and replace B6 before Team B attempts its throw-in due to A3’s out-of-bounds violation?

blindzebra:

I have reposted my play above in order to discuss your response of Dec 18/Sat., 2004 10:28pm which was:

"What you described is an official NEGLECTING to signal time in on a throw in touched on the floor, and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the play in question. This play falls under a Timer's error, because of the little, "The timer is AUTHORIZED to start the clock per rule if the official NEGLECTS to signal," in 5-9-1.

Once again, 5-9-1 is the rule that STARTS the clock. 5-9-2, 3 and 4 are when that SIGNAL is to be given.

Yes B1 may re-enter, and I'd leave the clock as it is, because the only options, by rule, is to take a full second off the clock for lag time, or go back to the last know time."


You are forgetting some of the fundamentals of basketball. Here are some examples: (1) The Scorer’s signal does not cause a live ball to become dead. (2) The official’s whistle does not always cause a live ball to become dead. And (3) The Timer’s signal does not always cause a live ball to become dead. It is the same for a live ball becoming dead. The vast majority of the time it is a player’s actions cause a live ball to become dead.

At one time there were only two ways that an official could cause a dead ball to become live: (1) The official released the ball for a jump ball. And (2) the official placed the ball at the disposal of a free throw shooter. During throw-ins the ball did not change from a dead ball to a live ball until the throw-in was touched a player or was touched by a player on the court.

What am I saying? It is actions by the players, for the most part, that cause a live ball to become dead. This same logic says that it is players’ actions that dictate when the game clock starts. It is the actions of the players that cause the game clock to start on a throw-in, not the actions of the official and/or Timer that causes the game clock to start. And more importantly, the failure of an official and/or Timer to do or not to do something does negate the fact that it is players’ actions that causes the clock to start. What does this mean? It means that if the official signals time in and/or the Timer starts the clock before the players’ actions cause the game clock to start, the players’ actions dictate what happens next. The players’ actions cannot be negated and the time on the game clock is not correct. What to do? What to do? Correct the game clock and resume play from the point of interruption.


bz, lets look your answer to the four plays that I posted. You stated that B1 can replace B6 in all four plays. You have stated that the game official made a mistake in not signaling time in, and mistakes by the game officials (not to be confused with correctable errors) cannot be corrected.


In Plays A-1 and A-2, the Timer did not start the game clock because the game official did not signal time in. Was the Timer correct in not starting the game clock because the game official did not signal time in, or did the Timer make a mistake in not starting the game clock as authorized by R5-S9-A1? Which is it? If the Timer was correct in not starting the game clock then B1 cannot re-enter the game and replace B6. If the Timer did start the game clock as authorized by R5-S9-A1, then B1 can re-enter the game to replace B6, but how can the game clock be adjusted to reflect the correct time, if the game officials do not have definite knowledge of how much time should actually be on the game clock?


In Plays B-1 and B-2, was the Timer incorrect in starting the game clock because the game official was incorrect in not signaling time in or was the Timer correct in starting the game clock as authorized in R5-S9-A1? Which is it? If the time was incorrect in starting the game clock, then B1 cannot re-enter the game to replace B6, and does that mean that the game clock must be reset to show no elapsed time
? If the Timer was correct in starting the game clock then B1 can re-enter the game to replace B6 and we resume play with the time on the game clock as the correct time.


We have two sets of plays that are identical for all intents and purposes, yet by using your logic we can have conflicting interpretations. What to do? What to do?


How do we solve this conundrum? Easy use logic and apply the fundamentals of the game. The players’ actions caused the game clock to start, whether or not time was actually runoff the game clock. Therefore B1 can re-enter the game for B6. The time on the game clock in all four plays remain as is when play was stopped for A3’s out-of-bounds violation. The type of action in all four plays happen so very quickly, that it is equally possible for the Timer to start and stop the game clock or to not to start and stop the game clock.

This logic is no different than resuming play in our original play with a throw-in by Team A closest to the spot where A3 caught A2’s throw-in with no time run off the game clock. Yes, I do not agree with Mary with regard to the amount of time on the game clock, but that is a minor point, when there are officials that are advocating one of two actions that are not supported by rule: (1) A do over of the entire throw-in from the point the end of the timeout, or (2) the game is over.

MTD, Sr.