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Originally posted by zebraman
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Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
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Originally posted by gte087t
how can you give them a T when you do not have jurisdiction for that game. The Varsity players are not about to participate in the JV game, therefore you do not have jurisdiction. Same thing if they were to dunk during halftime of the game or during half time of the girls game if they play girls and boys back to back.
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You have a point with regard to girls dunking the ball during halftime of the boys' game, BUT,
lets get back to the pregame where everybody in uniform is the same sex. When "player" decided to warm-up with the JV squad, he assumed the risk, that if he did something stupid, the JV team would pay for his stupidity.
It is not the officials' job to poll all of the players on the court to see who is a JV player and who is a VAR player. Once "player" dunks a dead ball during the officials' jurisdiction, the die has been cast and the Rubicon crossed, especially if a coach from the opposing team has also witnessed "player" dunking the dead ball.
MTD, Sr.
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No, no, no... some common sense here Mark. He's not on the JV team for crying out loud. Don't go looking for trouble. When you find out he's not on the JV team, just let the JV and/or varsity coach deal with it. If a coach from the opposing team witnesses it, all you have to do is say, "coach, he's not on the JV team. I've sent him packing."
If common sense isn't enough, let's look at some definitions in rule 4-34:
A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player. He's not eligible to play in the JV game cuz' he's not on the team, it's as simple as that.
He's also not bench personnel. He isn't part of your game. No T is necessary by rule nor common sense.
Z
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Zman:
With all due respect, I would rather an official use logic rather than common sense.
The officials arrive at the court. Do the officials go to each player on the court and ask them if he is on the jr. varsity team or the varsity team? And if a player tells him that he is on the varsity team, do the officials instruct him to leave the court? The answer to my first question is no, and why is my answer no? Because logic dictates that the officials do no such thing. Why would the officials even what to do such questioning? Because there is no reason for them to do so. Since the answer to my first question is no, then the officials do not even have to answer my second question of what to do if they discover a varsity player warming up with the jr. varsity team.
I learned from my high school geometry teacher to never assume because it makes an *** of U and ME. But then I learned in engineering school that one can make educated assumptions, declare them in advance, so that if one's solution is not correct one can revise his educated assumptions and craft a new solution.
In the case being discussed, the officials' educated assumption should be that all players in uniform are part of the team which is going to play in that game. Why? Because they have no reason not to assume otherwise.
You stated that the varsity player is not a jr. varsity player by quoting NFHS R4-S34. You stated that since he is a varsity player and not a jr. varsity player is not part of my game and is not under the officials jurisdiction. When the officials arrived on the court, the game is know theirs and they do have jurisdiction of the court and everybody in uniform on the court. Which begs the question once more, How would you know that the varsity player was not an eligible jr. varsity player? You don't know for the reasons that I have stated above.
Futhermore please read my post of December 14, 2004, at 10:48pm. I think that it will help you even more in understanding this situation.
MTD, Sr.
[Edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on Dec 15th, 2004 at 09:47 AM]