Sat Dec 04, 2004, 09:22pm
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Get away from me, Steve.
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,783
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJT
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by MJT
Rule 4-40-2 says "A player is trying for a goal when the player has the ball and in the officials judgement is throwing or attempting to throw for a goal. If he passes it, how can we say he is throwing it for a goal??? This is why I think if he passes it, he "passes" on his FT's as well.
The above RULE is what I think is the best argument for no FT's. He is not "throwing or attempting to throw for a goal" if he PASSED the ball.
PLEASE ARGUE MY POINT ABOVE!!
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Sure. Here are two arguments that directly relate to (and refute)the passage above.
1. If he passes it, how can we say he is throwing it for a goal??? Argument #1. You are the one who is not following the rule. You've left out a crucial part of the rule, which I've been trying to explain to you. He doesn't have to throw for goal. He only has to attempt to throw for goal. The attempt is simply the beginning of the throwing motion. Once the throwing motion starts, if he's fouled, then it's in the act of shooting.
2. He is not "throwing or attempting to throw for a goal" if he PASSED the ball. Argument #2. No, obviously he's not attempting to throw for goal once he passes the ball. But he was attempting to shoot if he began the habitual motion which usually preceeds a try.
Now, let me say this. I can't comment on your specific play, b/c I didn't see it to judge whether the shooting motion started. But in your very first post, you said that when he went airborne, you thought he was shooting. If you thought that he started the motion, then you should've given two shots.
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I cannot tell myself that he attempted for a goal when he looked at a teammate and passed the ball.
I did "think" he was probably going to shoot when he first was fouled, but when he changed his mind, so did I.
Not that it makes it right or wrong, but I was curious so I tallied up the "shoots" vs OOB's. With the discussion pretty much over accept for rainmaker, Chuck, and I the votes of those who responded on this board are "5 to shoot" and 9 to take it OOB's. I have demonstrated the play to 4 officials now between yesterday and now, all varsity officials, and they all said "without a doubt, it is OOB's."
I guess we may just have to agree to disagree. It has been an interesting debate. Thanks!
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He changed his mind? You mean AFTER he got fouled? Then you got it wrong. BTW, it's OK to "agree to disagree" but that doesn't make it any less wrong.
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