Quote:
Originally posted by gordon30307
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:
Originally posted by gordon30307
Mark,
How can you not make it "not personal per se" and then question my integrity. Are you not a "moderator" and as such I think your reply is quite "unprofessional" from a person in your position.
Have a nice Thanksgiving.
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Gordon:
You are missing the point. Before thousands of officials you have stated that you would NOT correctly enforce the rules of basketball if in doing so it would hinder your basketball officiating career. You publicly stated that you would willingly violate the cannons of officiating ethics to further your career. If you are going to publicly announce that you will violate the cannons of ethics of our profession so that you can further your career as a basketball official then you must be prepared to reap what you sowed. If you do not like being publicly taken to task for unethical or unprofessional behavior then dont go bragging about it. In other words, if you cant stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen.
I stated earlier that I am not a perfect basketball official but I have officiated basketball at the: boys/girls H.S. level for 34 years; womens college for 31 years (31 years ago I was the first male to officiate womens college basketball in the State of Florida and one of the first males in the Southeast), including 18 Div. I playoff games and 20 jr. college playoff games; and mens college basketball for 12 years. Since 1993 I have officiated over 30 AAU and YBOA boys and girls national championship tournaments (including 4 YBOA girls national title games in the last 5 years) plus one PAL boys/girls national championship (including the boys 16U national title game). I sit on four IAABO national committees. I am a rules interpreter for my local officials association and teach its officiating class.
What does the preceding paragraph mean? For one thing it means that I am a bald old geezer who is long in the tooth and has just seen about everything possible until the next new thread really does come up with something I have not seen or heard of before. It also means that I am a crusty old curmudgeon who has the experience, knowledge, and hopefully the wisdom to take a young whippersnapper like you to task for unthical and unprofessional behavior.
I do not expect every official to sit on national committees or be rules interpreters or instructors, but every official should conduct himself in an ethical and professional manner with regard to the profession. If that official cannot do that then he should not officiate.
MTD, Sr.
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Did you bother to read what I said. In a normal situation an ejection results in a one game suspension. I will eject as needed. In my nape of the neck (to quote Chevy Chase) you must sit one game at the level that you are participating in. ergo the next JV game may not occur for one, or two weeks. With a routine ejection, obnoxious coach to T's etc. the punishment doesn't fit the crime. That being said a fight, racial slurs etc. the coach or player is gone. Since I have superb (something that you seem to lack) people skills I have gotten coaches to sit players who are a the verge of crossing the line.
Prior to a JV game as part my pregame this is discussed with my partner the consequences of an ejection and we are on alert for possible situations that may escalate. An as Barney says "nip it in the bud."
Incidently I have never had a situation where I had to launch someone in a JV game.
Now if using common sense and good game management is unethical then I guess I am.
I knew you were a crabby old man. In spite of that have a Happy Thanksgiving.
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Gordon:
Here are the ejection penalties for the games under the jurisdiction of the OhioHSAA (player or coach):
1) First ejection: two game suspension at the level of the game in which the ejection occured. That means if the Varsity coach is sitting on the bench during a freshmen game (and there are times when we have freshmen/jr. varsity/varsity triple headers here in Ohio) and he gets ejected from the freshmen game, he is done for the rest of the evening and suspended from coaching at freshmen, jr. varsity and varsity until the freshmen team has played two games. This penalty is also the same for players, because OhioHSAA rules state that H.S. players are limited to 80 quarters of basketball during the basketball regular season.
2) Second ejection: suspended the remainder of the season. If the person ejected is a coach, the coach and his principal must have a personal meeting with the Commissioner of the OhioHSAA before he can return to coaching. And if I were a coach in a school that lived in the fartherest reaches of Ohio from Columbus, that is not one automobile ride that I would have to take with my principal, because these meetings are during the day during the week.
I agree that an official should not eject a player or coach for an offense for which an ejection is not warranted by rule. Remember that there are no "routine" ejections. An ejection is a very serious penalty. If the rules do not warrant an ejection, then do not eject, but if the rules do warrant ejection, then an official must eject. But we should not be thinking about other penalties that our StateHSAA invokes because a player or coach decides act in such a manner for which the rules require an ejection. If a coach's actions warrant an ejection under the rules of the sport, the official should and must take care of business. If the StateHSAA decides to impose further sanctions should be of no concern to the game official. As I stated before, if you fail to eject a coach when it is warranted because you do not want him to have to suffer a StateHSAA suspension, you are not doing your job.
I agree with you that we should always be performing preventative officiating with regard to players and coaches and unsportsmanlike conduct. I do not want to eject players or coaches anymore than the next official. (Writing a game report is a bigger pain in the tuchus than writing this post in my opinion.) But once that player or coach fails to heed an official's efforts to keep in him in the game and the official fails to take the appropriate actions per rule because he does not want to ruin his own career or does not want the player or coach to have to serve a suspension, that official has violated the cannons of ethics for officials. And I have stated earlier, that official only makes the job of the officials who follow him more difficult with this coach.
I would suggest that you take a step back and re-evaluate what you want to accomplish in your officiating career. Maybe you need to take a year off from officiating. But I know that right now I would not want to officiate with an official that won't take care of business if it is going to keep him from getting games later in his career.
MTD, Sr.
[Edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on Nov 22nd, 2004 at 01:06 PM]